Adam

Here I was pegging you as a Seventh Day Adventist, but now you're saying that the bad translation so crucial to their theology is wrong. I guess next I'll be thinking you're a Jehovah's Witness.

sotto voce

Evidently there is at least one criterion if it is true that 'There are in fact some Christians'. Is that actually true? If so, what is/are the criterion/criteria?

Enough said.

tanya

Personally, I find Jehovah's Witnesses to be one of the most attractive of the Christian groups.

I especially like the fact that they emphasize that stavros does not correspond to cross......

Duvduv

How do the Witnesses know the stauros wasn't a Chi rho cross?
And are there any ancient sources including pagan ones that provide a technical description of a crucifixion?

mountainman

This same question might be asked not of today, but of the heresiological christians in an historical sense. The 4th century orthodox heresiologists CLAIMED to be descendent from the "True Nation of Christians", according to the ancient records, by means of the apostolic succession. There are certain problems in accepting this claim as true, but these can all be overcome with faith.

tanya

It is my understanding, quite possibly WRONG, that Homer, and many other authors wrote σταυρός to indicate STAKE, not cross.

As far as I know, the idea that σταυρός ALSO represents CROSS, is coming first, from Justin Martyr, mid second century:

cited in Wikipedia, which also has the original Greek....

Duvduv

According to the Talmud the lamb was roasted on a single spit of pomegranate wood that went throgh vertically down the center. But in Trypho the author had to figure out a way to make it resemble the crucifixion of the Lamb while still having the Christ correspond to the Yom Kippur sacrifice.
That book doesn't describe the actual crucifixion does it?

Sheshbazzar

From the Torah perspective an עץ 'atz' is an עץ 'atz' is an עץ 'atz', no matter in what form, shape, or variety it is.
Unless a particular shape, form, or variety of עץ is specifically indicated.

Thus 'wood', 'tree', stake', 'pole', 'cross' or 'gallows' are all included, the common denominator being any form of wood.

One hung on a 'tree', stake', 'pole', 'cross' or 'gallows' or wood of any sort or fixture is all the same under the rules of Torah.
This explains why these various forms are interchangeably used in the texts.

It's shape or form really doesn't make any difference at all.....

Unless.... one is Hell-bent upon the venerating of an image :devil1: ....such as 'a single spit of pomegranate wood', a 'crucifix',
.... or that old brass snake on a stick that Moses lifted up in the wilderness. (get it?)

Same old same old. That old 'wood' is all cut for the feeding of the fire. :devil1:


.

Lugubert

No, it's various believers who have joined our (very food centred) spring celebration and given it their name.

Duvduv

I was wondering whether Justin ever described the technical aspects of a crucifixion, or for that matter whether any ancient pagan or other source specifically described how people were crucified.