Ted Hoffman

Earl Doherty, The Jesus Puzzle, Appendix 2 (p.302-304)

Conversation between Paul and Some New Converts

DEMETRIOS (the host an owner of the house): So, Paul tell us more about Jesus the saviour. I have heard that he taught the people with great authority about the coming of the Kingdom of God, and how we should all love one another.
PAUL Yes, I have hear rumours to that effect, but I consider such things unimportant, and as it happens, I am not familiar with any of his teachings.
DEMETRIOS I see. But your mission is to gentiles like ourselves, is it not? Surely Jesus himself included gentiles in his own ministry and directed his apostles to go out and preach to them? I would certainly like to think that he did.
PAUL I suppose thats possible. I don't have any first-hand information.
HERMES You have performed signs and wonders for us, Paul, which convinces us that the lord is indeed speaking through you. I understand that Jesus himself performed great feats over nature and once fed thousands with a few loaves of bread. My friend Ampliatus heard about when he was in the east...
PAUL (clearing his throat): Oh, I dont concern myself with such things, and you shouldnt either. They are quite insignificant and you dont need to know about them to believe in the risen Son of God.
JUNIAS When I heard you would be here, Paul, I told my sick mother that perhaps you would come around to see her and expel the demon that is making her ill. I, too, have heard from a relative in Galilee that Jesus expelled demons and healed many people...
HERODIAN (Interrupting with some agitation): Yes, the demons have been especially active in my own household. My brother has contracted a fever, and just last week, the roof of my workshop collapsed for no reason...
PAUL (with a placating gesture): There is no doubt that evil spirits beset us on all sides, my friends, and we must have faith that God will deliver us from them. As to reports of healings by Jesus, perhaps he did, but then, every wonder-worker in the country makes such claims, so perhaps we should not place too much importance on such things...
OLYMPIAS You have told us about the coming end, Paul, and I look forward to our promised deliverance from this sorry world, but I am greatly frightened by what may happen. Did Jesus reveal anything to his disciples about what things would be like when he comes back from heaven?
PAUL (somewhat miffed): Who knows? Anyway, one cant rely on what those so-called 'men of repute' in Jerusalem are spreading around. After all, they're only fishermen. Besides, as I have told you, I have information on the subject directly from Christ himself...
AGRIPPA (a Jew): Some of my Jewish friends have heard of your preaching, Paul, but when I invited them to join us at table, they said that they could not break their purity regulations and eat with gentiles. Did Jesus follow such strict rules and refuse to eat with the unclean?
PAUL (exasperated): I have no idea.
CRISPUS (looking a little pained): I have a Jewish friend, too, who is a follower of Christ. But he says that even the gentile has to be curcumcised - (pained expressions all around) - and follow every aspect of the Jewish law if he wishes to become a member of your faith in Christ. Is that so? Did Jesus specify such a requirement?
PAUL My friends, my friends, why all these foolish questions? What Jesus may have said or done in the course of his life is completely immaterial. I have already informed you of the only thing that matters, Christ's own suffering and death, and his rising from the dead. These are the things that have brought us salvation!
DEMETRIOS (hastily, sensing some perplexity and unease among his guests): Yes, my friends, the Lord's passion is surely what we should be focusing on, and what he went through in the terrible ordeal. Tell us about that, Paul. Was he tortured and scourged before they crucified him?
PAUL (shrugging): I assume he was. The Romans do that to everyone they crucify.
GAIUS (spitting in disgust): Yes and they break the condemned man's legs to make him die more painfully. I suppose they did that to Jesus?
PAUL I don't know. I wasn't there.
ARCHIPPUS Tell us what he said, Paul, when they put him up on the cross. Even now, the authorities are persecuting new believers in Christ and I wonder if we'll suffer that hatred, too, just as Christ did. Did he speak? Did he stand fast? Did he condemn them for what they did?
PAUL (curtly): I didn't ask. But let me tell you about what the Lord revealed to me personally...
JULIA Oh, how I envy you, Paul! You who have been to Jerusalem and could stand on the very spot where Jesus was crucified. That would give me the shivers. You must have felt his presence. Is that when he spoke to you?
PAUL My dear Lady, I have never been to Calvary. I couldn't find the time when I went to see James and Peter. It's only a little hill after all.
PERSIS But the tomb, Paul. Did you not see that? Are there still signs of the Lord's resurrection? Do Jesus' followers pray there every easter?
PAUL (throwing up his hands): As to that, I couldn't say. But one tomb is much like another, dont you think? Why fill your heads with such paltry details? We should better focus on the eternal significance of these events...
DEMETRIOS (noting nervously that a couple of his guests had quietly slipped away): Well, I am sure that we all agree that Paul has been very enlightening on the subject of Jesus Christ. Perhaps we should retire to the atrium for aperitifs and he can tell us more...

*****End of Appendix 2***

NOTES

This imaginary conversation covers circumcision, miracle healings, exorcism, open commensality (about which Jesus was notorious about), shrine visitations and other subjects that would without doubt have been of interest to the early Christians and which Paul would undoubtedly have referred to the examples Jesus set, or the lessons he taught regarding these subjects.

IOW, we expect to see Paul at least mentioning these issues in his epistles and referencing Jesus for support and lessons.
But we don't.

Therefore, Paul did not know of a HJ.

Casper

The only problem is that it assumes a Historical Paul.



Personally, I doubt that there was one. I think "Paul" was a psueudonym that early writers used. And epistles were an accepted, if primitive, method of creating a historical presence or believability; first-person narratives hold a great advantage in that regard. Mary Shelley realized this when she wrote Frankenstein. The same literary device was used for Penthouse's Forums, and even today, there are people who use something similar to promote their own blogs, by publishing emails from "visitors" who don't really exist.

Let he who has ears, hear! Let he who has eyes, see! those with noses, let them smell! :wave:

GakuseiDon

But that would assume that the existence of historical early writers... (had to say it!)

Vorkosigan

Ah...ghost writers, eh?

butswana

Holy ghost writers?

Casper

Magdlyn

"Will the real Paul please stand up?"

(Marcion stands up.)

Ted Hoffman

GDon,
After reading this imaginary conversation, are you still convinced that Paul knew a HJ but never mentioned Historical Details about Jesus in his writings because talking about historical issues about Jesus simply wasn't Paul's style?

GakuseiDon

Yes. Repeat the imaginary conversation using any other historical point, and you'll see what I mean.

The fact is, the only people described in Paul's letters to any degree are Paul himself and Jesus.

Casper

And what of the bit-players?

There are many "thanks to my freinds..." passages too, which are really of no relevance today, but at the time they established a "line" between early church leaders and some kind of original event.

These pre-Marcionites gained an air of legitimacy because of this, and I suspect that they are actually involoved in the authoring to a much greater degree.

The whole argument about Paul being famous for letter writing but not a good speaker tells me that the writer is setting up a prepared exit for those who wish to see "Paul" in the flesh and hear him speak. A back door so to speak.