Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Toto · 03-25-2011, 02:20 AM

.Filmmaker Jacobovici continues to unearth the unknown: Think of a religious artifact and he's found it

Quote:

This April 18, in time for Easter, his three-part film Living in the Time of Jesus will air on television.

....

On a macro-level, what he brings to light is a pivotal catastrophe that would be the catalyst to radically shape Christianity as a major religion.

That episode is about Pompeii - a partially buried Roman town near modern Naples. In the year 79 AD, the eruption of Mount Vesuvius wrought wide devastation there. "There are very dramatic visuals of people cast in ash," he says.

Nine years earlier to the month, the Romans had destroyed the Jewish Temple and took hundreds of thousands of Jews as slaves to places like Pompeii. Mr. Jacobovici believes the Jews never lost faith that eventually the God of Israel would smite the slavemasters in revenge. And the destruction of Pompeii was all the proof they needed.

...

"When people look at archaeology, they look at villas, temples, monuments. This story is where you have to look at graffiti, here the crucifixion graffiti of Pompeii's walls. It is mind boggling. It's the first time the word Christian appears anywhere in writing. Most people thought it shouldn't appear until the fourth century."

Also to air next month is the six-part series Secrets of the Ancients, about which he maintains ... an air of secrecy. He will hold a press conference April 12 in Jerusalem revealing what he says is a "new twist" promising "an artifact that will make international news".

mountainman · 03-26-2011, 04:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

.Filmmaker Jacobovici continues to unearth the unknown: Think of a religious artifact and he's found it

Quote:

This story is where you have to look at graffiti,
here the crucifixion graffiti of Pompeii's walls.

It is mind boggling.

It's the first time the word Christian
appears anywhere in writing.

Most people thought it shouldn't
appear until the fourth century."

I remember looking at this before.

The Christian Inscription at Pompeii (or via: amazon.co.uk) [Hardcover] Paul Berry.

There's a blog:

Quote:

The conjecture that there was an underground Christian community in Pompeii is supported by similar circumstances. However there are reasons to question these as well. The impression of what appeared to be a cross impressed into stucco in Herculaneum in the House of the Bicentenary was actually a cupboard support. While the inscription in the House of the Christian Inscription (obviously named) is incomplete (even though it does contain the word ‘Christian’)

Also the following notes (but I dont have a source):

A charcoal inscription, in Latin, found at Pompeii in 1862, was once interpreted as "Bovos listens to the Christians [Christianos], the cruel haters", but this interpretation (one of a few interpretations, that I know of)
cannot be tested, as the inscription already in 1864 was lost,
and is only available in two conflicting drawings.

I may have put the pen down at that point.

Doug Shaver · 03-26-2011, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Quote:

"Most people thought it shouldn't appear until the fourth century."

Oh, did they, now? That's news to me.

GakuseiDon · 03-26-2011, 06:59 AM

I've always wondered how the disaster at Pompeii influenced ancient beliefs. The idea that the gods held Providence over Mankind had to have held a part, yet I've seen nothing reflecting that. From a pagan perspective, I would have thought that they would have seen the destruction of Pompeii as a significant event. The Book of Revelation possibly was influenced by the disaster, but there is nothing concrete there either.

Toto · 03-26-2011, 10:50 AM

There's a thread in the archives on the Pompeii inscription

Chrestus / Christus inscription in Pompeii which references this thread starting at post 104 by Stephen Carlson. The inscription is quite dubious.

credoconsolans · 03-26-2011, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GakuseiDon

I've always wondered how the disaster at Pompeii influenced ancient beliefs. The idea that the gods held Providence over Mankind had to have held a part, yet I've seen nothing reflecting that. From a pagan perspective, I would have thought that they would have seen the destruction of Pompeii as a significant event. The Book of Revelation possibly was influenced by the disaster, but there is nothing concrete there either.

But who would have heard about it outside the local area and maybe Rome? Ships that used to dock there would have passed along the word that it was destroyed, but who says word might have gotten to a people who had worse things to worry about than the destruction of a not so important provincial Roman beach town? I'm sure any Jews would have seen the destruction of Rome by Divine forces more in line with the destruction of Jerusalem.

As far as its influence on ancient beliefs, I daresay, hardly any. People bemoaned the loss and the anger of the gods, but it changed nothing in their beliefs. Life went on quite normally afterwards.

Toto · 03-26-2011, 12:45 PM

The case for the destruction of Pompeii as "Godly Revenge" was made by Hershel Shanks in an essay at BAR (only available with a subscription.)

There is a blog post about it here

Quote:

Shanks recently told The Jerusalem Post that the idea to examine a connection between the two events came to him on a tour of the ruins of the Roman city located in the vicinity of modern-day Naples.

“On my own visit to Pompeii, I tried to find out when the destruction of the Temple occurred,” Shanks relates. “When I learnt of the supposed date, I thought, ‘Hey I wonder if anyone has connected the two.’” Shanks, described by the The New York Times as “probably the world’s most influential amateur Biblical archaeologist,” said he called Harvard’s Shaye Cohen, who directed him to Book 4 of the Sibylline Oracles, a text composed by “mostly Jewish oracles” shortly after the eruption.

The book first mentions the destruction of the Temple, and then seemingly refers to the Vesuvius eruption: “When a firebrand, turned away from a cleft in the earth [Vesuvius] In the land of Italy, reaches to broad heaven It will burn many cities and destroy men.

Much smoking ashes will fill the great sky And showers will fall from heaven like red earth. Know then the wrath of the heavenly God.”

The second piece of evidence cited by Shanks is ancient graffiti etched onto a fresco at a Pompeii building. The grafitti reads “Sodom and Gomorra.”

In Shanks’s opinion, the text is proof that a Jewish visitor to the ruins believed its fate followed that of the two sin cities that the Bible says were destroyed by God.

The Jerusalem Post article is here

mountainman · 03-26-2011, 09:07 PM

The Christian Inscription of Pompeii data has been logged with the others.

Eventually perhaps, the most surprising discovery will be somewhat akin to the famous Holmesian episode in which the dog didn’t bark in the night.

Quote:

Also to air next month is the six-part series Secrets of the Ancients, about which he maintains ... an air of secrecy. He will hold a press conference April 12 in Jerusalem revealing what he says is a "new twist" promising "an artifact that will make international news".

It's a circus. I wonder what sort of rabbit is going to be pulled out of the hat.

Minimalist · 03-28-2011, 09:41 AM

As Higgaion pointed out in the review of Exodus Decoded, Jacobovici will stretch the truth to the point of lies. An internet acquaintance of mine recently called him "the Jewish Ron Wyatt."

sweetpea7 · 03-28-2011, 06:59 PM

Yeah, didn't Jacobovici team up with James Cameron a few years back for a "documentary" claiming to have found the tomb of Jesus which was quickly discredited? Also, why is this guy's show titled "The Naked Archaeologist" when he is a journalist and has no training in archaeology?

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03-26-2011, 06:59 AM	#4
GakuseiDon Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 5,714	I've always wondered how the disaster at Pompeii influenced ancient beliefs. The idea that the gods held Providence over Mankind had to have held a part, yet I've seen nothing reflecting that. From a pagan perspective, I would have thought that they would have seen the destruction of Pompeii as a significant event. The Book of Revelation possibly was influenced by the disaster, but there is nothing concrete there either.

03-26-2011, 10:50 AM	#5
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	There's a thread in the archives on the Pompeii inscription Chrestus / Christus inscription in Pompeii which references this thread starting at post 104 by Stephen Carlson. The inscription is quite dubious.

03-28-2011, 09:41 AM	#9
Minimalist Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,808	As Higgaion pointed out in the review of Exodus Decoded, Jacobovici will stretch the truth to the point of lies. An internet acquaintance of mine recently called him "the Jewish Ron Wyatt."

03-28-2011, 06:59 PM	#10
sweetpea7 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Dayton, Ohio Posts: 1,407	Yeah, didn't Jacobovici team up with James Cameron a few years back for a "documentary" claiming to have found the tomb of Jesus which was quickly discredited? Also, why is this guy's show titled "The Naked Archaeologist" when he is a journalist and has no training in archaeology?

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