Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Peter Kirby · 12-23-2003, 07:49 AM

I have received this query from a visitor to my site:

"I am curious if you have ever been able to get your hands on any published works concerning excavations at a monastary near the base of the Mount of Olives known as Dominus Fluvet. I have come across references to papers authored by a Roman priest named Milik, and an Israeli named Yigael Yadin. I have also come across a reference to another archaeological report by a different author. Have you ever seen or heard of either of these documents? If you are familiar with them, what is your opinion of the findings of these reports? I am dying to get my hands on them but cannot find them for purchase anywhere, although I have not exhausted all library avenues yet."

Please let me know if you have any relevant information.

best,
Peter Kirby

Toto · 12-23-2003, 11:26 AM

Yigael Yadin was a famous general and archeologist.

The excavation in question seems to be described here:

Jerusalem Burial Cave Reveals: Names, Testimonies of First Christians

(Dominus Flevit is close enough.)

Quote:

The catacombs were found and excavated primarily by two well-known archaeologists, but their findings were later read and verified by other scholars such as Yigael Yadin, J. T. Milik and J. Finegan.

The first catacomb found near Bethany was investigated by renowned French archaeologist Charles Clermont-Ganneau. The other, a large burial cemetery unearthed near the modern Dominus Flevit Chapel, was excavated by Italian scholar, P. Bagatti.

. . .

As Claremont-Ganneau further investigated the tomb, he found inscriptions, including the names of "Eleazar"(="Lazarus"), "Martha" and "Mary" on three different coffins.

The Gospel of John records the existence of one family of followers of Jesus to which this tomb seems to belong: "Now a certain man was sick, named Lazarus, of Bethany, the town of Mary and her sister Martha. (It was that Mary which anointed the Lord with ointment, and wiped his feet with her hair, whose brother Lazarus was sick)..." (11:1,2)

John continues by recounting Jesus' resurrection of Lazarus from the dead. Found only a short distance from Bethany, Clermont-Ganneau believed it was not a "singular coincidence" that these names were found.

from The Jerusalem Christian Review

Amaleq13 · 12-23-2003, 12:10 PM

The Gilman article contains this sentence:

"As he continued his excavations, Bagatti also found a coffin bearing the unusual inscription "Shimon bar Yonah" (= "Simon [Peter] son of Jonah")."

Is this an accurate translation of what is written or is "Peter" being read into the inscription?

Toto · 12-23-2003, 02:43 PM

Quote:

An inscription, found on a first century coffin bearing the sign of the cross, reads: "Shimon Bar Yonah" = "Simon [Peter] son of Jonah".

I think the author of this article is reading Peter into the inscription, just as the cross is automatically assumed to be a Christian cross.

You might wonder in any case how St. Peter could be buried here if he were crucified in Rome as church history tells you, but if you follow the last link, you will find that this group, the Jerusalem Christian Review, does not believe that Peter went to Rome or founded the Church of Rome, which I suspect they think of as the Whore of Babylon.

Quote:

The Vatican excavations, however, presupposed without doubt the tradition that Peter lived in Rome. They believed that he led the church, served as its first Bishop, suffered martyrdom under Nero, and was buried on Vatican Hill. The data (mostly graffiti), which was found, was therefore "read" with this preconceived conviction in mind. Although the excavators did not uncover any proof of Peter's burial-place, they believed that what they had found were the tombs of Peter and Paul.

The traditions of Peter's presence in Rome have a high probability of being just wishful thinking.

In addition, we do have a very important and exciting shred of evidence that, although it is far from being foolproof evidence, still it cannot be entirely ignored. In 1953, Italian archaeologist Bellarmino Bagatti excavated an ancient cemetery in Dominus Flevit in Jerusalem. He found a first century AD ossuary with an unusual Hebrew inscription. It read: "SH'IMEON BAR YONAH" translated: Simon Son [of] Jonah. This name equals with amazing precision the name "Simon Bar Yonah", by which Jesus Christ Himself called Peter (Matthew 16:17).

Toto · 12-23-2003, 03:13 PM

Here's a much more detailed (if a little less dispassionate) description of the find:

Peter�s Tomb Recently Discovered In Jerusalem

It does have this:

This looks like another Ossuary tale. All of the internet references go back to the Jerusalem Christian article. All it needs is Andre Lemaire certifying the handwriting.

Doctor X · 12-23-2003, 10:20 PM

Of course only ONE Simon was ever born of a person named Jonah. . . .

--J.D.

12-23-2003, 07:49 AM	#1
Peter Kirby Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: the reliquary of Ockham's razor Posts: 4,035	Archaeology Question I have received this query from a visitor to my site: "I am curious if you have ever been able to get your hands on any published works concerning excavations at a monastary near the base of the Mount of Olives known as Dominus Fluvet. I have come across references to papers authored by a Roman priest named Milik, and an Israeli named Yigael Yadin. I have also come across a reference to another archaeological report by a different author. Have you ever seen or heard of either of these documents? If you are familiar with them, what is your opinion of the findings of these reports? I am dying to get my hands on them but cannot find them for purchase anywhere, although I have not exhausted all library avenues yet." Please let me know if you have any relevant information. best, Peter Kirby

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12-23-2003, 12:10 PM	#3
Amaleq13 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Eagle River, Alaska Posts: 7,816	The Gilman article contains this sentence: "As he continued his excavations, Bagatti also found a coffin bearing the unusual inscription "Shimon bar Yonah" (= "Simon [Peter] son of Jonah")." Is this an accurate translation of what is written or is "Peter" being read into the inscription?

12-23-2003, 03:13 PM	#5
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	Here's a much more detailed (if a little less dispassionate) description of the find: Peter�s Tomb Recently Discovered In Jerusalem It does have this: This looks like another Ossuary tale. All of the internet references go back to the Jerusalem Christian article. All it needs is Andre Lemaire certifying the handwriting.

12-23-2003, 10:20 PM	#6
Doctor X Banned Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: USA Posts: 3,794	Of course only ONE Simon was ever born of a person named Jonah. . . . --J.D.

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