Splarnst

Since there really is a place named England, according to the "logic" of the defenders of the bible, then no.

Doug Shaver

No. I assume that none of its authors intended to deceive anyone. Therefore, none of it is a lie.

Of course, most of it is false. But that makes it a mistake, not a lie.

aa5874

The OT may be legendary tales, but the NT is total fiction, a complete deliberated lie fabricated for the sole purpose to distort the history of Jesus believers.

There is just no evidence that there was a legendary figure called Jesus in the 1st century. No Jewish writer of the 1st century mentioned the name Jesus.

Sheshbazzar

I do not take such a bitter view, as it is obvious to me at least, that the legendary NT messianic figure just began as a Jewish adaption, revival, and continuation of the legendary Joshua -Deliverer figure of the OT, the new legends were fashioned by Jews, just as were the old ones, as a means to promote and to protect Israel's national identity, in an attempt to hold back the rising tide of Hellenistic religious syncretism, particularly amongst the Jews of The Diaspora and gentile proselytes.

The NT Gentile writings composed much latter, distorted the facts to serve the views of the church, and the syncretism that the Legend was first devised and intended to prevent, took over, and has prevailed ever since.

Just natural cultural processes at work, not really so much a conspiracy, as simple and gullible beliefe, while focusing on the immediate political/religious agenda, coupled with the neglecting or ignoring of any and all information that might interfere with the goals of that agenda.

Earl IV

Jesus - The original urban legend^TM

aa5874

There is no information, evidence or written statements that can be found about any Jesus as a mere human, who was a legendary figure in the 1st century, anywhere in the world right now.

The Jesus presented in the NT was the son of a God of the Jews, No well known Jewsish writer wrote about any Jesus as a mere human and died on a cross to save mankind from sin.

Josephus wrote about the Antiquities of the Jews and showed no tradition, no influence, no legendary tales, rumors, followers, or teachings of any person called Jesus up to or around 92 CE.

Philo, the Jew from Alexandria wrote nothing about any legend
called Jesus, his teachings, or his followers.

Your theory has no support, you really have no evidence to claim that there was a legend and that there was syncretism.


Plausibilty is not history. People who think Gods exist believe it is plausible that Jesus was the son of the God of the Jews.

What you think may have happened has no real value.

We have information, evidence, written statements in the NT and the church writers, the Jesus in the NT is simply not true. The NT as presented is just fiction.

sourdough

judge for yourself
www.skepticsannotatedbible.com
I believe in me.:wave:

Sheshbazzar

Although there were many "Jesus's" in first century Palestine, I do not believe that there ever was any human Jesus (or Y'shua), intended to be the messiah figure. The Y'shua of the earliest Messianic Nazarenes would have been a strictly legendary figure, similar in concept to "Uncle Sam", a personage with sandals entirely too big for any flesh and blood being to fill.
No, this "Joshua" (sic) was that same Israeli national hero and -Deliverer- "Joshua" (sic) familiar in OT legend, a national mascot, not any particular 1st century flesh and blood person.
The Nazarenes did not write the so called "New Testement", and being Jews and devout practitioners of Judaism, they would have rejected almost everything written in those forged documents.
The Gospels, and all of the Epistles were created latter by the "christians", with a theology that is entirely at odds with the beliefs that were held by the original Nazarenes.
"Paul" (or rather his purloined "name") and the Gentiles went their own way and created a new religion. The real Nazarenes remained a separate and Jewish sect for hundreds of years, gradually diminishing and finally disappearing around the 5th century (at least this is what various Christian and Jewish sources now claim. Epiphanius and Jerome both left scathing accounts of these despised Nazarenes, just be careful not to accept -too much- of what they say about their actual beliefs as "evidence" of anything they actually believed, they were after all, extremely hostile and prejudiced witnesses)
So, I agree with your observations, there was NO human Jesus, NO flesh and blood son of god- and also NO incarnation, virgin birth, miracles, sermon on the mount, betrayal, or trial, NO "cross" nor crucifixion, NO death nor resurrection, NONE of this ever actually happened outside of those fairy tales that were fabricated by latter Gentile Christians.

Really? don't you believe that Joshua the son of Nun was a legendary figure? and that the Jews desired a Deliverer?
No evidence of syncretism? Hell, even the name change from the original "Joshua" ("Yah-hoshuah", Num. 13:16) into the Greek "Jesus" is syncretism, leaving aside all of that other "borrowed" pagan/Gentile crap that the Hellenist's managed to so cleverly weave into their New Testement religion.

Yep. I really couldn't agree more.

mountainman

Dear Doug,

Why should one make this assumption? Do you have any evidence for it?

Best wishes,


Pete

Sheshbazzar

There really would have been very little for them to have written at that time, as the Jews that held these views were just Jews among the Jews with a very Jewish viewpoint, that they looked to the legendary Joshua as a national hero, and YAHs Delivering anointed one, whom they hoped would be realised in The promised Messiah to come, was not a radical, or even a noteworthy news item.
Or to put it this way, the views and the teachings of James, Peter and the other Jerusalem "pillars" (if they were real at all) were all so essentially "Jewish", and so conservative and uncontroversial, that they would have drawn almost no attention at all. Just a few quaint midrash stories and "sayings" to promote Israeli nationalism and Jewish religious unity.