Funkytrip

No, not a topic where I want to see those supposed scientific truths and predictions debunked or proven.

I would like to know if there is something known about the origin of this 'hype' as I call it.

There must be someone who started making a list of these 'scientific discoveries' and use it as proof that the Kuran is the word of God. Did they play copycat from the creationalists? Was it already a 'proof' a hundred years ago? Did muslims in the early 1900s already use the 'Kuran predicts science which we only discovered recently' argument?

When did this argument pop up?

-edit-
Not sure if I have the right forum though...apologies in advance.

Malachi151

The fact that people who promote this issue don't realize, or overlook is that modern science is based on ancient Greek science, which was deveoped between 500 BCE and 300 CE.

Greek science was then overturned by the Christians.

When the Christians did this, some of the Greek works mmade their way out of Roman civilization and into the Middle East where they were kept my the Arabs, etc., and which became a base of the knowledge that was incorporated into the Koran.

In the West, this knowledge was disregarded by Christians, but was rediscovered during the 12-15th centuries and formed the basis of the Renessance.

Western science did catch back up with ancient science until around the 18th and 19th century.

Therefore, some of what is in the Koran is simply a reflection of the ancient level of "scientific" knowledge that existed in the civilized world prior to the "collpase of civilization" and the coming on of the "Dark Ages".

This same knowledge was rediscovered in the West and then became the basis of modern science as well.

The info and ideas into the Koran didn't come "from God", they came from the ancient Greeks and Romans.

Wisdumb

You got it all backwards Malachi151. It was the Arabs who translated greek texts into Arabic, which were in turn translated into latin for europe to discover hundreds of years later. During the Golden Age of Islam, greek and other philosophies, sciences, mathematics and much more were restored and improved upon by the arabs, not just translated. Arab texts written by Avecena, Averroes, and many more were the standard of nearly every intellectual field for centuries before europe finally stopped thinking science and intellectual progression was from the devil. Plus what made europe even more aware of the accomplisments of the arabs was when they took part in the crusades and discovered just how much more advanced the east was than they had been.

countjulian

Dumbed down Islamic version. Much early wisdom imparted on the Arabs came from Syrian Christians and Jews captured during the frist jihad. A MAJOR source of knowledge for the early Arabs were the pagans of Harran. The worshipped the old semetic gods of the area, and had a school of Greek philosophy descended from Greek philosophers who had been persecuted and forced to flee Greece by the ultra-pious Emperor Justinian. When the Arabs captured Harran, the pagans pretended to be the mysterious "Sabeans" of the Quran, the thrid monotheistic group referred to in the Quran as ahl al-kittab, people of the book who can live as dhimmis under Islam. This was a lie, the Harranians weren't monotheists at all, but it fooled the Muslims. They, the Harrians, founded the first modern university, the School of Wisdom in Baghdad, from whence was passed on to the Muslims innumerable amounts of Greek knowledge, much of it late Neo-Platonic material such as the works of Simplicius, one of the original philosophers who fled to Harran to escape Christian persecution. In the end, the Harranians were massacred and forced to convert to Islam in the 11th century by the Turks. The Islamic world proceeded on a long decline thereafter.

countjulian

See here
http://www.geocities.com/freethought...smilwarda.html
http://www.geocities.com/freethoughtmecca/water.html
http://www.geocities.com/freethoughtmecca/bigbang.html
http://www.geocities.com/freethoughtmecca/embryo.html
http://www.geocities.com/freethought...arymiller.html
http://www.geocities.com/freethought...n_quackery.htm

Wisdumb

I've heard many theories about how the arabs weren't actually responsible for those accomplishments, but yours takes the cake. Arabs couldn't have done such great things, it had to be another group behind the scenes right? or one forgotten in time. Riiiight!

countjulian

The Arabs who arrived in Persia and parts of the Byzantine Empire their jihad conquered were uncouth barbarians from a land which had recently invented an alphabet for its language. Do you think they just arrived with masterful architectural plans and philisophical and scientific treatises tucked under their arms? Of course not. The pagans of Harran did found the Baghdad School of Wisdom, and it was Syrian Christians who translated large amounts of Aristotle into Arabic (after all, how were the Arabs to know Greek?). These are historical facts, and denying them with lots of exclamation points and sarcastic questions does nothing.

countjulian

The Quran also took some of the wrong Greek theories, such as that sperm are produced in the back (Sura 86:5-7). Carrier has a great essay on the Quran versus Lucretius De Rerum Natura here
http://www.secweb.org/index.aspx?act...ewAsset&id=362

Wisdumb

I am not a Muslim. I am not defending musliims either. But according to your statement the Islamic Golden Age had nothing to do with muslims themselves. Dont you find that odd? So the greek, roman, and british empires didn't come up with anything themselves they just stole everything from the people they conquered right? Listen there have been many "scholars" out there trying to discredit the Islamic accomplishments because of the fact the east and west have been add odds and at war with eachother for more than a thousand years now. Plus it is a known fact that many Muslims' names such as Averreos (ibn Rushd) were changed to disguise their true identities. It seems racism (and I'm not calling you one) can't permit a hated group of people to at least have their history. Plus your sources were most likely Western ones. Many middle eastern scholars will beg to differ as would many in other nonwestern continents.

Blui

This is a very interesting theory, it sounds plausible too.

Could you perhaps reference any online material that can give some rough dates to say, the Muslims developing a new language and everything else.