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Old 04-08-2010, 09:07 AM   #1
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Default James Holding: the women at the tomb

Consider the following:

http://www.tektonics.org/lp/nowayjose.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by James Holding

This one has been brought up many times, but it bears repeating and elaboration. If Christianity wanted to succeed, it should never have admitted that women were the first to discover the empty tomb or the first to see the Risen Jesus.

Many have pointed out that women were regarded as "bad witnesses" in the ancient world. We need to emphasize that this was not a peculiarity as it would be seen today, but an ingrained stereotype. As Malina and Neyrey note, gender in antiquity came laden with "elaborate stereotypes of what was appropriate male or female behavior."
Would the Christian church have grown faster if the texts had said that men discovered the empty tomb, and that Jesus appeared to men first? I assume not since almost no one believed that Jesus would rise from the dead. Even after seeing the empty tomb firsthand, Peter did not believe that Jesus had risen from the dead. The same goes for Mary Magdalene. Matthew says that when Jesus appeared to some of the disciples in Galilee after he rose from the dead, some of them did not believe that he was Jesus. Apparently, which sex discovered the tomb, and which sex first saw Jesus after he rose from the dead are irrelevant regarding the growth of the Christian church.

How could an entire group of women, including Mary Magdalene, forget that the tomb was sealed, and the very same group of women forget that Jesus said that he would rise from the dead? If Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead, and said that he would rise from the dead too, there is no way that an entire group of women could have forgotten that he said that he would rise from the dead. It is an extraordinary thing for a man to raise someone from the dead, and to claim that he would rise from the dead too.

Since Jesus taught that his powers came from God, it is reasonable to assume that the women believed that God was responsible for Jesus' ability to raise Lazarus from the dead. If they believed that, why wouldn't they have believed that God would raise Jesus from the dead too? Even if they didn't, surely not all of them would have forgotten that Jesus said that he would rise from the dead. If God raised Lazarus from the dead, obviously, it would be a simple matter for him to raise anyone else from the dead.

Apparently, the entire accounts of the women at the tomb are false.
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Old 04-08-2010, 09:59 AM   #2
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Robert M. Price's reply to this point:
Quote:
“If Christianity wanted to succeed, it should never have admitted that women were the first to discover the empty tomb or the first to see the Risen Jesus. It also never should have admitted that women were main supporters (Luke 8:3) or lead converts (Acts 16).” Similar traditions stem from the ritual mourning of women devotees of Tammuz (Ezekiel 8:14), Attis, Baal (Zechariah 12:11), etc. They are not supposed to be "evidence for the resurrection" any more than the Oberammergau Passion Play is. And plenty of Mystery cults gave leadership roles to women. That's part and parcel of sectarianism and its first-generation rejection of mainstream norms.
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Old 04-08-2010, 06:41 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Kesler View Post
Robert M. Price's reply to this point:
Quote:
“If Christianity wanted to succeed, it should never have admitted that women were the first to discover the empty tomb or the first to see the Risen Jesus. It also never should have admitted that women were main supporters (Luke 8:3) or lead converts (Acts 16).” Similar traditions stem from the ritual mourning of women devotees of Tammuz (Ezekiel 8:14), Attis, Baal (Zechariah 12:11), etc. They are not supposed to be "evidence for the resurrection" any more than the Oberammergau Passion Play is. And plenty of Mystery cults gave leadership roles to women. That's part and parcel of sectarianism and its first-generation rejection of mainstream norms.
From Price:
Quote:
Again, “Assigning Jesus the work of a carpenter was the wrong thing to do; Cicero noted that such occupations were ‘vulgar’ and compared the work to slavery.” Must early Christian preaching have won over the worst sort of snobs? No one, not even the special pleading Crossan, argues that Jesus was one of the Untouchables or Outcasts. Don't tell me there weren't plenty of people then as now who would not have relished the notion of a faith started by a rustic carpenter. ..
That is why there have been attempts in gosples to trace his genealogy and prove him of a royal lineage. Not only Joseph, even Mary too is sought to be proved a princess thingy.

Krishna was of royal lineage, so was Mahavira, the 24th Teacher of Jainism and so Buddha. Their parents WERE of royal lineage.

Seems the line of Jesus was concocted under Indian influence, after all the gosples were finalised only by about 300 AD.
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