Bob K

The essence of the law is that no man should injure another; all the rest is commentary. [Attributed to Thomas Jefferson, US Founder, and Third President of the United States]

If ...

Injure = Causing a threat or actual loss of life, limb. liberty, or/and property.

Innocent = Not intending to injure any individual who does not intend to injure another innocent individual.

... then ...

Jefferson's The Essence of the Law Restated: The essence of the law is that no man [or woman or child] should injure [cause a threat or an actual loss of life/limb/liberty/property] another [innocent individual]; all the rest [of the law] is commentary.

Anat

He was only restating Hillel's version of the Torah: What you hate, to another do not do. The rest is commentary, now go study!

Bob K

I read Jefferson's The Essence of the Law only once, in a book I was browsing at the Washington University (St. Louis) Bookstore. The article stated that Jefferson had, indeed, paraphrased a Jewish Rabbi, but did not state which one.

I have looked for the source, in Jefferson's writings, for the precise Jefferson quote, but have yet to find it.

I wish I had bought that book. Jefferson's Essence is the clearest description of the "spirit" of the law I have ever read. People have quoted me as the source of the Jefferson Essence.

Here is a description of a story inre Hillel in which "the essence" of the Torah is described:

This Jefferson Quote suggests that he had been working with the linking the concept of injury to a broad description of the powers and government and therefore the law (as one of the powers of government):

Therese

It seems some folk during the inquisition shared similar ideas to Lee.....

Near the end of the 15th century, two Dominicans by the name of Henry Kraemer and Jacques Sprenger wrote a book: "Malleus Maleficorum" or "Witches' Hammer." It became the legal reference book of the Witch burning times.

From some clerics' hatred of women and fear of human sexuality came the belief that every newborn was possessed by an indwelling demon. The church regularly exorcised babies at the time of baptism with the following ritual:

"I exorcise you unclean spirit in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Come out and leave this servant of God [infant's name]. Accursed and damned spirit, hear the command of God himself, he who walked upon the sea and extended his right hand to Peter as he was sinking. Therefore, accursed devil, acknowledge your condemnation...and depart from this servant of God [infant's name]...Never dare, accursed devil, to violate the sign of the holy cross which we place upon his/her forehead. Through Christ our Lord."


http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_sat5.htm#xtian

Development of the Concept of Satan, in the Early Christian Church:

religioustolerance.org

lee_merrill

Hi everyone,

I think we are also given reason in Scripture to hope that all will be saved, and then have freedom, within God's will, the forbidden part is finite, the unforbidden part is infinite.

Genesis 2:16 And the Lord God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden..."

But this is just what I mentioned, saying that this bad view is the view of everyone who speaks and acts believing they are led by God.

There is a penalty of death for homosexual practices, and this is Paul's conclusion in this area:

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Paul says everyone has sinned, and deserves death, and these sign carriers are indeed correct about this, only they should put themselves on the sign too, and also speak of God's redemption, for these sinners, including themselves, including this sinner, namely myself.

But the objection here is based on the account, as it is written. We can't edit out the parts that we find do not suit some conclusion here, and claim to still have such an objection.

And I don't hold that all infants have demonic presences in them, the opposite is shown in Scripture, as in John the Baptist, filled with the Holy Spirit in his mother's womb.

Now if Scripture is wrong, then Scripture is wrong. If there is an objection to the Scriptural view, that is another question, but again, an objection to the Scriptural view cannot be made, along with editing the Scriptural view...

Are witches real, by the way? Could a witch really kill someone, supernaturally, or drive them mad? Is it possible? These are pertinent questions, nowadays, and such deeds indeed would be deserving of death, and the approach yet must be to seek to be able to say "And that is what some of you were..."

Regards,
Lee

Therese

Lee, please note that I said similar view.

Btw, would you like to see exorcisms for babies deemed to have demons in them? Or shall we have them 'estrangled from the womb'?

Does it just depend on how badly the child in question is 'infected' with 'demons', as to whether god/one of his human helpers has them butchered or merely removes the demon? Or do they play tic-tac-toe to choose? Because given that your god is all powerful, he could click his fingers and have these supposed demons removed in an instant.

Another question. If you were in an army, at war, and some guy came up to you and said 'god made me the boss and told me to make sure all the babies were killed', what would you say to him? And how, if at all, is this different from believing Moses had this authority?

John A. Broussard

Could you give a rough guess? Maybe a percentage?

I'm especially interested knowing about the classification of the millions upon millions that god aborts before they are born. Do they all have demonic presences?

Thank you.

badger3k

You know, I think you have it - that's why it happens- it's God's SPAMblocker!

:Cheeky: :devil3:

lee_merrill

Hi everyone,

Well, I don't have "the belief that every newborn [is] possessed by an indwelling demon."

And holding that some may be filled with the Holy Spirit, and some not involved with spirits at all, and some possibley even involved or filled with demonic spirits (but see below), has some substantial differences, from what they were holding.

I don't actually subscribe to typical procedures that are done in exorcisms, nor do I hold that anyone with a demonic presence should be put to death in any given case.

Mark 9:20-25 So they brought him. When the spirit saw Jesus, it immediately threw the boy into a convulsion. Jesus asked the boy's father, "How long has he been like this?" "From childhood," he answered. When Jesus saw that a crowd was running to the scene, he rebuked the evil spirit. "You deaf and mute spirit," he said, "I command you, come out of him and never enter him again."

Certainly, this is essentially the same as asking why God allows demons in the world in the first place, assuming they are real. But this objection is not generally made to the mere presence of demons in the world.

But judgment or deliverance is certainly not my decision! I most emphatically don't know enough, and I believe that God does, based on, for instance, his predictions of the future, indicating he knows all outcomes.

I would inquire as to whether he had thrown down a rod that became a snake, whether God has spoken to him from fire on a mountain, in a voice everyone had heard, where all trembled when they heard it, and asked that they listen to God through Moses from then on...

Exodus 20:19 and they said to Moses, "Speak to us yourself and we will listen. But do not have God speak to us or we will die."

I don't believe there are any, in the sense that the Canaanites and the Nephilim before Noah, were to be suspected of demonic involvement, because of their supernatural stature.

Thus this is rebellion, certainly not doing God's will, and not God doing it.

Regards,
Lee

Therese

Quote:
Btw, would you like to see exorcisms for babies deemed to have demons in them? Or shall we have them 'estrangled from the womb'?

Lee, 'estrangled from the womb', was something you originally quoted, and is from the bible. The words were not pertaining to exorcisms.