stephan huller

I love so much engaging other people here in the forum because it quite literally means you end up thinking about the early Christian material in different ways. One of my favorite people here - Andrew Criddle - made me take a second look at the Philosophumena (which I usually avoid because it gives me a headache) and look what I found - a direct references to something I had long suspected vis. the Marcionites employing fire baptism:

I think this is very significant especially when we acknowledge that the Marcionites did not 'retain' the baptism of Jesus by John. The Marcionite purification rite is here being likened to Empedocles plunging himself into the fires of Aetna. Diodorus says of this explicitly "Thou, Empedocles, didst purify thy body with the Living Flame, and Fire didst thou drink out from Immortal Craters." In other words, Marcion introduced among his followers a baptism of fire referenced in Mark 9:49 (according to Baarda's reconstruction). Interesting that the Philosophumena also infers that the Marcionites themselves thought their gospel was the 'true' gospel of Mark ...

Toto

I'm having a hard time imagining what this baptism would consist of.

dog-on

Jalapeños?

stephan huller

Marcion's version of the text of Luke 11.2 has to be mentioned. When the disciples ask, “Lord, teach us to pray as John did with his disciples,” Jesus adds to the requests: “That your Spirit might come to us and purify us.” (cf. See Adolf von Harnack, Marcion: Das Evangelium vom fremden Gott (Leipzig, 1921), 188) Mark not only referenced fire baptism in 9:49 but it is alluded to even in the opening lines of the canonical text with John declaring "but clearly I baptize you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.” John 1.33 returns to Mark's tradition: John was sent to baptize in water; Jesus, on the contrary, baptizes in the Holy Spirit. According to John 4.2, Jesus himself didn't baptize; his disciples did.

The identification of Holy Spirit with fire is present in the Gospel of Philip "Those who have gone astray, whom the spirit begets, usually go astray also because of the Spirit. Thus, by one and the same breath, the fire blazes and is put out" and again "It is from water and fire that the soul and the spirit came into being. It is from water and fire and light that the son of the bridal chamber (came into being). The fire is the chrism, the light is the fire. I am not referring to that fire which has no form, but to the other fire whose form is white, which is bright and beautiful, and which gives beauty." The Gospel of Philip similarly declares "It is through water and fire that the whole place is purified - the visible by the visible, the hidden by the hidden. There are some things hidden through those visible. There is water in water, there is fire in chrism."

And again "Indeed, one must utter a mystery. The Father of everything united with the virgin who came down, and a fire shone for him on that day. He appeared in the great bridal chamber. Therefore his body came into being on that very day. It left the bridal chamber as one who came into being from the bridegroom and the bride. So Jesus established everything in it through these. It is fitting for each of the disciples to enter into his rest." And again "Those who are separated will unite [...] and will be filled. Every one who will enter the bridal chamber will kindle the light, for [...] just as in the marriages which are [...] happen at night. That fire [...] only at night, and is put out. But the mysteries of that marriage are perfected rather in the day and the light. Neither that day nor its light ever sets. If anyone becomes a son of the bridal chamber, he will receive the light. If anyone does not receive it while he is here, he will not be able to receive it in the other place. He who will receive that light will not be seen, nor can he be detained. And none shall be able to torment a person like this, even while he dwells in the world. And again when he leaves the world, he has already received the truth in the images. The world has become the Aeon (eternal realm), for the Aeon is fullness for him. This is the way it is: it is revealed to him alone, not hidden in the darkness and the night, but hidden in a perfect day and a holy light."

The Pistis Sophia declares "Jesus said unto his disciples: "Draw near unto me." And they drew near unto him. He turned himself towards the four corners of the world, said the great name over their heads, blessed them and breathed into their eyes. Jesus said unto them: "Look up and see what ye may see." Their eyes are opened.And they raised their eyes and saw a great, exceedingly mighty light, which no man in the world can describe. He said unto them anew: "Look away out of the light and see what ye may see." They said: "We see fire, water, wine and blood."

Jesus explaineth the vision of fire and water, and wine and blood.Jesus,--that is Aberamenthō,--said unto his disciples: "Amēn, I say unto you: I have brought nothing into the world when I came, save this fire, this water, this wine and this blood. I have brought the water and the fire out of the region of the Light of the lights of the Treasury of the Light; and I have brought the wine and the blood out of the region of Barbēlō. And after a little while my father sent me the holy spirit in the type of a dove.

"And the fire, the water and the wine are for the purification of all the sins of the world. The blood on the other hand was for a sign unto me because of the human body which I received in the region of Barbēlō, the great power of the invisible god. The breath on the other hand advanceth towards all souls and leadeth them unto the region of the Light.

The same explained from former sayings."For this cause have I said unto you: 'I am come to cast fire on the earth,'--that is: I am come to purify the sins of the whole world with fire." [Pistis Sophia 5.141] And again a little later in the same book "Thereafter his disciples said unto him: "Rabbi, reveal unto us the mystery of the Light of thy father, since we heard thee say: 'There is still a fire-baptism and there is still a baptism of the holy spirit of the Light, and there is a spiritual chrism; these lead the souls into the Treasury of the Light.' Tell us, therefore, their mystery, so that we ourselves may inherit the kingdom of thy father." [ibid 5.143]

Elsewhere in the Pistis Sophia ""Now, therefore, when a man receiveth the mysteries of the baptisms, those mysteries become a mighty fire, exceedingly fierce, wise, which burneth up sins; they enter into the soul secretly and devour all the sins which the counterfeit spirit hath implanted in it. And when the fire hath purified all the sins which the counterfeit spirit hath implanted in the soul, the mysteries enter into the body occultly, that the fire may secretly pursue after the pursuers and cut them off with the body. They chase after the counterfeit spirit and the destiny, to separate them from the power and the soul, and place them with the body, so that the counterfeit spirit, the destiny, and the body may be separated into one group, and the soul and power into another. And the mystery of baptism remaineth between the two, and separateth the one from the other, in order that it may cleanse them and make them pure, that the soul and power may not be fouled in matter."

Excepts of Theodotos 15 "And the angels are bodies; at any rate they are seen. Why even the soul is a body, for the Apostle says, "It is sown a body of soul, it is raised a body of spirit." And how can the souls which are being punished be sensible of it, if they are not bodies? Certainly he says, "Fear him who, after death, is able to cast soul and body into hell." Now that which is visible is not purged by fire, but is dissolved into dust. But, from the story of Lazarus and Dives, the soul is directly shown by its possession of bodily limbs to be a body.

PhilosopherJay

Hi Stephan,

We seem to be getting information about some kind of baptism ceremony involving fire (probably a torch) water, wine and blood. Barbelo is a female principle, so if Jesus gets the blood from her, we are probably talking menstrual blood. I'm imaging you're in a dark room, somebody lights a torch, three bowls are placed in front of you, one with water, one with wine and one with menstrual blood. You dip your face in each. Voila, you're reborn, immortal and enlightened.

Warmly,

Jay Raskin

Toto

Ewww...

stephan huller

I think it goes to the Persian roots of the Pentateuch. Just look at Pardes in chapter one of Genesis. And any interest in fire is bound to be connected with Persia. Hence the name Simon Magus

ph2ter

I don't think that interest in fire is connected with Persia in any special way. This interest actually stems from the roots of Jewish religion itself.
The fire flames are the flames which consume the one set apart for Yhwh.

Zach 9.11: "As for you also, because of the blood of My covenant with you, I have set your prisoners free from the waterless pit."
The waterless pit probably refers to Tophet and the sacrifice of the firstborn children by passing through fire. By the blood of paschal lamb, the firstborns are saved from the flames.
The blood, but of the paschal lamb, ensures that the Israelite firstborn males survive the attack of the 'Destroyer'.
But at first, the firstborns had to pass through the fire (one inscription on Carthagian stelae has a phrase "Life for life, blood for blood, a lamb as a substitute"):
Ezekiel 20.23-27: "Also I swore to them in the wilderness that I would scatter them among the nations and disperse them among the lands, because they had not observed My ordinances, but had rejected My statutes and had profaned My sabbaths, and their eyes were on the idols of their fathers. I also gave them statutes that were not good and ordinances by which they could not live; and I pronounced them unclean because of their gifts, in that they caused all their firstborn to pass through the fire so that I might make them desolate, in order that they might know that I am the Lord."'

Exodus 22.28-29 implies that the firstborn son is to be given to God on the eighth day of his life. It is also the eighth day that biblical law requires that circumcision be performed.
Circumcision is directly related to Moses and Abraham and independently to the sacrifice of the firstborn. Circumcision renders the Israelite male in Lev. 19. 'holy' or 'set apart' allowing his inclusion among Yhwh's people and land which recalls the language of the firstborn law in Exodus 13.2 where also the firstborn is to be 'set apart'.

So, the one who passes through the fire needs not to be circumcised.

stephan huller

But the Jewish religion as we know it was completely reshaped in the Persian period. Just look at Deuteronomy 33 which begins with a vision of God descending with his angelic hosts in the NIV:

The word אֵשְׁדָּת (eshdat) appears only once in the Torah so the King James version renders Deut 33:2 “The Lord came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them; He shined forth from mount Paran, and He came with ten thousands of saints: from His right hand went a fiery law [eshdat] for them."

The early Jewish interpretors used notrikon - a method where two words are combined into one or one word is divided into two - to explain this word eshdat. It was divided into two, the result being esh and dat - “fire and law" - this even though the word dat is Aramaic.

The Kethib of the MT reads "at his right hand are the mighty ones, viz, the angels [malakh = angel]."The Qeri reads this line as God descending and "at his right hand is the fiery law." Thus, in the Kethib, the angels are at the right hand of God to give theTorah to Moses, whereas in the Qeri the flaming Torah itself is at God's right hand and Moses receives it directly from him. According to the traditional interpretation of this passage, it was taken to mean that the Torah was written in fire — black and white fire.

The Torah that is described by the word eshdat was made out fire not stone. But how can one distinguish between the fiery tables and the fiery text? To solve the problem, the fire was thought to have been composed of two colors, black and white. The tablets were made out of black fire and the letters were made out white fire. The Law thus looked like a blackboard with white words chalked on it. In the words of the Talmud, “The white fire was engraved on black fire and it was a mixed fire and carved out of fire.”

The various ancient translations of eshdat in the phrase eshdat lamo right at the start of Deuteronomy 33 was taken to mean “the fire of Torah is with him ” or “fire of religion is with him.” I think this is the original context of the fire baptism in earliest Christianity. Look at Secret Mark and notice the symbolism of crossing the Jordan which follows the 'mystery of divine kingship.' Moses is the original king of Israel. His enthronement is clearly with eshdat.

Yet the original word eshdat is Persian. This is critical. The Jewish, Samaritan and early (heretical) Christian interest in fire is rooted there too. Perhaps if we could figure out what the original Persian term here was, we could unravel the mystery of fire baptism.

Another reference - "Fire (esh dat) flashing at them" — had law (dat) not been given along with it, no human being could bear up under it. — Sifrei, Vezot Haberakhah, according to the versions of Rabbenu Hillel and the Yalkut. Notice here the eshdat is something separate from the fire of eshdat. This is the original understanding. The one baptized in fire is literally being enveloped by divine power.

It is interesting to note that Clement clearly recognizes Deuteronomy 33 as an enthronement ritual for Moses "For they call Moses one who “who breathed from the water.” It is clear that previously the parents gave a name to the child on his circumcision; and he was called Joachim. And he had a third name in heaven, after his ascension (= Deuteronomy 33.5) as the mystics (οἱ μύσται) say—Melchi (= king). [Strom 1.23]

stephan huller

fdd