McGargoyle

From the fact that they burn, you can conclude that they are wooden chariots.
The other two verses make no reference to the material of the chariots.
The ones mentioned in Judges are explicitly said to be made of iron and those are the ones that seem to pose a problem. We can conclude that the chariots from Exodus are wooden, too - at least that they're not made of iron.

Godless Wonder

Not that I think this is part of your argument with problems, but

I think the Bible is pretty clear that the God it describes can and does lie.

Lugubert

Another case where God seems to be less than all-knowing is, as I read it, in Gen. 18, where God has to get down (?) to earth, disguised as three men (or in the company of two men, or as one man and two angels, or...) to find out whether there were any righteous men in Sodom. He should have been able to find that out just staying at home.

Magus55

I wasn't aware Iron can't melt or be burned... Gosh that makes one wonder how they made those Iron Chariots in the first place. Were they found in the ground pre-molded in Chariot form?

McGargoyle

I wasn't aware that you have to burn iron to melt it.

Most chariots in the ancient world and especially those of Egypt were made of wood.
There wasn't even any local iron production to speak of (see here).

From the link:
The fact remains that it is explicitly stated that iron chariots pose a problem.
Why would that be if iron was common in chariot construction?

ecco

Sometime before Day 6 God made all the animals. Probably males and females. Then he made Adam. Then he saw Adam was lonely. Then he made Eve. Did he not know Adam would be lonely?

Later he killed 99.9% of all men, women and children because they were bad. So when he created Adam he knew he would have to kill all these innocent children. Bad planning or abject cruelty?

Chris Weimer

:rolling:

Aeromaxis

In defense of my argument, i was not really trying to prove that God was, in fact, omniscient, I was merely presenting a form of argument that was not circular. ie. that did not presume omniscience in a premise. My argument does not do this. This argument, irrespective of its truth, is valid, or at the very least, not circular.

I invite you to re-examine my first premise:

"1. The Bible is a reliable document."
The evidence I use to support this premise would not be that "it is reliable because it says that it is reliable", rather, I would support this premise using historical evidence - the meticulousness of Jewish scribes, collaboration with other historical documants etc etc.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. I have just attempted a proof of biblical reliability.
2. Nevertheless, the Bible claims to be without error, it would have little or no use otherwise, surely?
3. Omniscience is actuallly very strongly implied in the Old Testament:
1 O LORD , you have searched me
and you know me.
2 You know when I sit and when I rise;
you perceive my thoughts from afar.
3 You discern my going out and my lying down;
you are familiar with all my ways.
4 Before a word is on my tongue
you know it completely, O LORD .

5 You hem me in-behind and before;
you have laid your hand upon me.
6 Such knowledge is too wonderful for me,
too lofty for me to attain.

7 Where can I go from your Spirit?
Where can I flee from your presence?
8 If I go up to the heavens, you are there;
if I make my bed in the depths, [1] you are there.
9 If I rise on the wings of the dawn,
if I settle on the far side of the sea,
10 even there your hand will guide me,
your right hand will hold me fast.
4. It is a philosophical impossibility for God to lie. God is the souirce of all truth, all that God says is true - he fashioned it - so he cannot, for this reason, utter an untruth.
The garden of Eden is not an example! God said that they would die when they ate the fruit and they did - I don't think they're around today.

Mordy

This thread shows a severe ignorance of true bible doctrine but thats ok since 90% of mainstream christians aren't really christian and do not have a handle on what the bible says despite their study they pre-decide bringing assumptions to the bible that are not found there. The closest people to true christians I have ever met were the christadelphians. http://www.thechristadelphians.org

First lets get these things out of the way:

Immortal soul - Not in the bible, everywhere in the old testament death is as we understand it scientifically. Ecclesiastes 9:10--Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the grave, [ 9:10 Hebrew [ Sheol ] ] where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom.

Hell is the grave not otherworldy torments -- Hell as a reality is not in the bible... again see Eccl: 9:10 again.

Heaven as an otherworldy realm is not in the bible -- The promise to abraham was that he was going to inherit the land of israel this earth and the kingdom of god would be established on this planet.

The "heavens and earth" are figurative language used as a system of things in the bible, for instance the flood of noah destroyed "the heavens and earth", yet not the universe or the planet. So obviously heaven and earth referred to a human system of things.

How could the bible God not be all knowing if prophecy is a big part of the bible gods message? How could god prophecy and not be all knowing? He's just guessing?

The name of God

Also the name of god can be used interchangably with angels, so when you read about God walking around the garden asking where adam and eve were, it was an angel carrying the name of god.

God's Angel to Prepare the Way

20 "See, I am sending an angel ahead of you to guard you along the way and to bring you to the place I have prepared. 21 Pay attention to him and listen to what he says. Do not rebel against him; he will not forgive your rebellion, since my Name is in him.

This easily solves all the contradictions where it says god does something but its really an angel carrying the name of god. This is to be expected though many atheists do not have that level of bible knowledge because they've never seriously considered or been in christianity.

Freaky

The books of the old testament are not in chronological order, i.e. in the order they were written.

Can you explain this, please?

Freaky.