Julio

Oh?! I like that!
It is logical, I think.
But we’re quickly back at square one, without knowing who pushed the “Start Button” to have a universe in which the Elohim created the rest.
You know, these “Elohim” [gods] must have lived in DARKNESS for a long time, until they found some weird “Switch” somewhere and trembling pushed it up, wondering what would happen!

Jim123

I've already stated that the Bibles are either fact or fiction, and I will expand that to include world myths. I've watched the entire Power of Myth series. It is full of facts about myths.

I don't know where you're going, but to cover our bases, let's look at the definition of "myth," and take note of the words like, "exaggerated," "fictitious," "imaginary," "false," etc. OK?


myth | noun

1 a traditional story, esp. one concerning the early history of a people or explaining some natural or social phenomenon, and typically involving supernatural beings or events.

2 a widely held but false belief or idea : he wants to dispel the myth that sea kayaking is too risky or too strenuous | there is a popular myth that corporations are big people with lots of money.

• a misrepresentation of the truth : attacking the party's irresponsible myths about privatization.

• a fictitious or imaginary person or thing.

• an exaggerated or idealized conception of a person or thing

Student of Sophia

If you've watched the whole series then you should know where I'm going with this. The black & white either-or view most people have of religion and myth is not the best way to view it.

"Every god -- Every mythology -- Every religion is true in this sense;
It is true as metaphorical of the human and cosmic mystery." -Joseph Campbell

"Every religion is true one way or another. It is true when understood metaphorically. But when it gets stuck in its own metaphors, interpreting them as facts, then you are in trouble." -Joseph Campbell

Jim123

What is "best' is a subjective matter of opinion. I think you're back to the "utility of myth" argument. If it makes you feel good, fine.

Your Campbell quotes are self-evidently false. They engage Special Pleading.

Methaphors cannot be held to the same standard as literalness. They are inherently figurative, or abstractions, and can be neither proved or disproved. Can you prove a metaphor? Don't confuse it with "synonym."

I respect Campbell, but I don't respect some of his conclusions.

Student of Sophia

You'll have to explain this. I've read almost all his books, seen both his video series, listened to all of his recorded lectures. Why exactly do you feel he is engaging in special pleading?

The Dagda

It would be equally valid to say every religion is false, the falseness of a religion is a metaphor of the human mystery, or at least both prepositions are no more false or true than the other. In that sense it's not really very revealing. Is it special pleading? Maybe, maybe it's just a non sequitur?

arnoldo

According to the Young Earth Creation model the earth was created before the Sun. However this erroneous view is based on a mistranslation of the Hebrew text which is explained in the following source:
Does Old-Earth Creationism Contradict Genesis 1?

Jim123

He's saying that such and such "is true" IF you expand the definition of "true" to include X. In Joe's case, he's expanding "truth" to include metaphor, and to his credit, he even puts that Special Pleading (or disclaimer, or re-definition) into his statement.

If language is to have meaning, we must accept the definitions our culture has agreed by usage. If it suits my purposes to include lies into my definition of truth, and everybody accepts that, then we need a new word that used to mean "truth."

If Steven Colbert had been on the air before Campbell did his series, Joe might have used the word "truthiness" instead.

The Dagda

Old-Earth creationism contradicts science and itself anyway. It's merely a step from an untenable theory to a less tenable one. The only view that makes sense is that God created the Universe, and then it all happened according to his plan. That is something like what the Catholics believe, but even their faith is at odds with science, they don't think man came from apes, or at least they question this. Needless to say The Pope is highly critical of intelligent design, not because it's creationism repackaged it's more to do with it being just another pile of junk.

Jim123

That's bullshit, not science. Look who sponsors the web site, and jump to the Conclusion, which leads off with:

"The message and purpose of Genesis 1 is the revelation of the one true God who created all things and ever keeps the universe under his sovereign control."

I won't waste my time reading his arguments, but I did a text search for "one true God," and that string of words only exists in the conclusion, and is not defined in his argument. Very scientific. Not.