TonyN

I believe Polycarp was a Greek and was the bishop in the town of the Greek city of Smyrna. He never used the word "eternal" and didn't think of unendingness when using the Greek word "aiwnion."
It does work and it does make perfect sense. They were to escape the fire pertaining to the eon. The unquenchable fire to which Polycarp alludes to (he was a student of the apostle John) is the same fire to which Christ spoke of which was to be in Gehenna. Gehenna, the trash dump is to last only 1000 years during His millennial reign.

I take the bible as my final say on these matters since it is inspired.


Joh 4:14 yet whoever may be drinking of the water which I shall be giving him, shall under no circumstances be thirsting for the eon, but the water which I shall be giving him will become in him a spring of water, welling up into life eonian."
They won't be thirsting for the eon. And the life eonian that wells up in them is that life pertaining to the eon.

Your "Luke 1:10" I think is a mistake. I think it should be This:
Luk 1:33 His father, and He shall reign over the house of Jacob for the eons. And of His kingdom there shall be no consummation."

There are two eons to come; the 1000 year eon and the new earth eon. Christ will rule over the house of Jacob for those two eons. And that which is of His kingdom will have world-wide domination.
Dan 2:44 "In their days, that is, of these kings, the Eloah of the heavens will set up a kingdom that for the eons shall not come to harm. His kingdom shall not be left to another people. It will pulverize and terminate all these kingdoms, and it shall be confirmed for the eons."

Dan 7:14 to Him is granted jurisdiction and esteem and a kingdom, and all the peoples and leagues and language-groups shall serve Him; His jurisdiction, as an eonian jurisdiction, will not pass away, and His kingdom shall not be confined."

That last phrase in bold above is the very equivalent of "And of His kingdom there shall be no consummation."

It does not mean His reign goes on unendingly. 1 Corinthians 15:22-28 show Him quitting the reign.

Ben C Smith

Hi, Tony. Any thoughts on Hebrews 9.2-3 and Exodus 26.33?

Ben.

TonyN

Heb 9:2 For the tabernacle is constructed, the front part (in which was, besides the lampstand, the table also, and the showbread), which is termed the holy place."
Heb 9:3 Now after the second curtain is a tabernacle which is termed the holy of the holies,

Exo 26:33 and you will put the curtain under the links. Then you will bring there, inside the curtain, the coffer of the testimony. The curtain will separate for you between the holy place and the holy of holies;"
Exo 26:34 and you will put the propitiatory shelter on the coffer of the testimony in the holy of holies.

There was, within the tabernacle the first part called the holy place. Beyond that section, which was separated by a curtain was the holy of the holies.
The coffer was beyond the curtain in the holy of the holies.

They are not one and the same. The coffer and the propitiatory shelter was not in the room before the curtain but was in the room after the curtain.

Ben C Smith

Tony, you are dodging. You wrote:

Now compare your quotation of Hebrews 9.2:

For the tabernacle is constructed, the front part (in which was, besides the lampstand, the table also, and the showbread), which is termed the holy place.

But the Greek of Hebrews 9.2 really has the holies (plural).

So, once again: Do you see how the holy (singular) is the same location as the holies (plural)?

Ben.

TonyN

My Vaticanus and Sinaticus Greek manuscripts have agia as singular in Hebrews 9:2.

Ben C Smith

That is surely not the case. If it were feminine, it would mean that the chamber is called holy, which would practically be a tautology. In the Greek OT, which the author of Hebrews frequently quotes verbatim (Hebrews 1.5, for example), the chambers of the tabernacle are always called by the neuter, not the feminine. The author is pointedly giving the name of the chamber, which in the Greek OT is frequently plural; he is just following precedent. The feminine is highly unlikely here; it is the neuter plural.

Ben.

TonyN

It is "adjective, nominative, singular, feminine" in my Greek texts.

DBT

Tony, I'm curious about your thoughts on this particular verse, as in this context "aionios" does appear to be best translated as 'eternal'...

Quote;
"who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light; whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen," (1 Tim. 6:16)

The context is obviously dealing with God's eternal nature. The word in Greek for "immortality" is "athanatos." The Greek word for death is "thanatos." The "a" in front of the word is the negator, without, non, etc. It means that God is deathless; hence, immortal. This is an eternal quality of God. Likewise, the verse states that God has eternal dominion. The word for "eternal" is "aionios" which is derived from the Greek root "aion" which means age. But, God is not immortal for only an "age," nor is His dominion temporal. The word "eternal" is absolutely the best way to translate the Greek "aionion" because God is immortal and eternal. Therefore, it would be wrong to translate the verse by stating that God has "aionion" dominion. Rather, He has eternal dominion."

Ben C Smith

The form of the word makes the feminine possible.

But it should be adjective, nominative, plural, neuter, since it is naming chambers that elsewhere are always placed in the neuter.

Which Greek texts (apparently parsed) are you using? BibleWorks has the neuter.

Ben.

TonyN

Dear DBT,
Here is the context of the verse Matt brought to our attention:

1Ti 6:13-16 I am charging you in the sight of God, Who is vivifying all, and of Jesus Christ, Who testifies in the ideal avowal before Pontius Pilate, (14) that you keep this precept unspotted, irreprehensible, unto the advent of our Lord, Christ Jesus, (15) which, to its own eras, the happy and only Potentate will be showing: He is King of kings and Lord of lords, (16) Who alone has immortality, making His home in light inaccessible, Whom not one of mankind perceived nor can be perceiving, to Whom be honor and might eonian! Amen!"

Who, precicely is verse 16 talking about based upon for prior verses or 13,14 & 15?

Let's get that settled first and then we will deal with aiwnion.

Ben:

Ben, I use the Interlinear Scripture Analyzer for the sublinear to my Hebrew and Greek texts. I also have loads of other works parsing out the OT and NT. They don't all agree.

The important thing to see, however, is that, no matter how one parses the Greek/Hebrew in the Exodus passage of Exodus 26:33,34 that there are definitely two different parts of the tabernacle being pointed out:

Exo 26:33 and you will put the curtain under the links. Then you will bring there, inside the curtain, the coffer of the testimony. The curtain will separate for you between the holy place and the holy of holies;"
Exo 26:34 and you will put the propitiatory shelter on the coffer of the testimony in the holy of holies.

There was, within the tabernacle the first part called the holy place. Beyond that section, which was separated by a curtain was the holy of the holies.
The coffer was beyond the curtain in the holy of the holies.

They are not one and the same. The coffer and the propitiatory shelter was not in the room before the curtain but was in the room after the curtain.