maryhelena

In previous posts, here and here I made a connection between Philo’s Carabbas (in his work ‘Flaccus’) and Antigonus, ie the mocking of Agrippa I (with the stand-in of Carabbas) being a replay of the historical mocking and insulting of Antigonus in 37 b.c. Antigonus being the last King and High Priest of the Jews and Agrippa I being the first appointed King, since that time, carrying Hasmonean blood - being a descendant of the Hasmoneon Mariamne I.

Antigonus, being a Jewish anointed figure, a Jewish King and High Priest, is, to my thinking, one of the historical figures that have been used, by the gospel writers, as a model for their JC composite figure. (The other figure being Philip the Tetrarch, a historical figure that was not crucified). Antigonus was both crucified, tied to a cross and flogged, and also beheaded. Consequently, there is enough in that history for it to be used both in the JC storyboard and also that of JtB. JtB, in the gospel storyline, being beheaded soon after the baptism of JC - the messianic torch being passed on. - previous threads, here and here.

Philo has linked Antigonus, via Carabbas, with Agrippa I. Josephus has linked messianic ideas to Agrippa I. The gospels have linked a beheaded JtB with a crucified JC through the baptism story. Both the beheading of JtB and crucifixion of JC can be linked to the historical drama of the end of the life of Antigonus. However, the other historical figure in the composite JC figure, Philip the Tetrarch, was neither crucified or beheaded. Interestingly, the gospel JC storyboard does give recognition to this fact - the story of Barabbas.

Barabbas is the insurrectionist, the murderer who has taken part in an uprising. He is let go and JC, for no crime according to Pilate, gets crucified instead of Barabbas. A crucifixion transferred to the man who commits no crime. There are echoes here of the two historical figures who have been used as models for the composite JC storyboard. Antigonus and Philip the Tetrarch. One a man of war and the other a man of peace. Within the composite JC storyboard these two historical figures are fused and become one pseudo-historical figure. (And a prophetic or symbolic time slot of 70 years separates the historical crucifixion of Antigonus in 37 b.c. and the pseudo-historical crucifixion of the gospel’s composite JC figure in 33 ce).

In Philo’s story, Carabbas is let go after the mocking episode. In the gospel story, Barabbas is let go. Both are stories of transference. Carabbas instead of Agrippa I and Barabbas instead of the gospel JC. Both are stories reflecting history, interpreting history through a prophetic lens, a messianic lens. Antigonus, Agrippa I and the gospel composite JC pseudo-history.

While a literary examination of the gospel storyline is important re how the OT has been mined for prophetic fulfilment or parallels, it is also important, if the ahisoricists position is ever to gain a foothold in the intellectual marketplace, that this position has more to offer than a literary take on the gospel JC storyline. In other words - history matters. The historical context in which the JC pseudo-history has been set down does matter. Not only as a means of understanding the political and social environment - but as a means to understand, to make some sense of, the pseudo-history of the gospel JC composite figure.


(An earlier post re Agrippa I and Philip the Tetrarch. Who is Philip the Tetrarch?)

jgoodguy

Just a quick observation that it is easier to use existing literature than create new literature. Granted that new literature has to be created at some point, the existence of similar themes at the time of the Gospel writings imply using those themes rather than creating new ones.

maryhelena

Sure, re-using literary themes is easier than being creative and making new ones..... However, my point of argument is not about themes, in and of themselves, but of history. The history of the last Hasmonean King and High Priest of the Jews, Antigonus - crucified, flogged and beheaded in 37 b.c. - 70 years prior to the gospel JC crucifixion (using gJohn). It is this history that allows for various themes, various stories, to be developed from it.

jgoodguy

Literature includes history. History influences fictional literature. Did a hypothetical writer use the story of Antigonus from a history or did he use other literature influenced directly or indirectly by the story of Antigonus.

aa5874

One cannot use FICTIONAL stories as CREDIBLE historical sources. It is a Credible source independent of the Fictional stories that ALLOWS for CORROBORATION.

One cannot ASSUME a KNOWN FICTION story MUST contain credible information.

jgoodguy

It depends on what you are looking for. Fiction contains credible information about a culture's mythology and its development can be traced. If you are looking for a HJ then credible information is nice to have. If you are tracing the development of the HJ mythology, then its not the historical evidence within the fiction, but the historical evidence of the fiction.

maryhelena

Whatever - the point is that Antigonus was used, ie aspects of his life story, a historical life story, have been used as a model for the crucifixion story of the pseudo-historical gospel JC.

jgoodguy

Could have been used not was used. it is a hypothesis without anything but circumstantial evidence at this point. Looking at the Wiki, the manner of Antigonus' death is inconsistent in the accounts. There is the little matter of the decapitation, the fact that Antigonus was actual royalty and a real rebel that raised armies and made alliances with the enemies of Rome. Antigonus was made king and priest by a foreign power not Yahweh making that aspect of Antigonus unlikely as a comparison.

All that is left is a flogging and cruxification common as possible motifs.

maryhelena

There is the 3 year rule of Antigonus and the 3 year JC ministry
(gJohn).

The cutting of the ears of the high priest, Hyrcanus, by Antigonus.
The cutting of the ear of the servant of the high priest by Jesus'
follower, Simon Peter.

The multilingual sign -Jesus the Nazarene, King of the Jews.
Antigonus produced bilingual coins. `King Antigonus' and
"Mattataya the High Priest and the Council of the Jews".

Antioch was where Antigonus was killed and it was Antioch in which
the followers of JC were first called Christians - according to Acts.

Herod the Great gave Marc Antony "a great deal of money'
in order to get Antigonus killed. In the gospel story, Judas gets 30
pieces of silver for betraying JC. (In Slavonic Josephus it is Pilate
who receives the 30 talents for having JC crucified)

Antigonus was "...insulted ...beyond measure, and called
...Antigone [i.e. a woman, and not a man". JC was mocked and spat
upon.

Antigonus is bound to a cross and flogged. JC is flogged and
crucified.