Freethought & Rationalism Archive

jakejonesiv · 01-16-2006, 01:30 PM

Judas und das „Judas-Evangelium“ Hermann Detering, Berlin 2005

English summary by Klaus Schilling

Jake Jones IV

Toto · 01-20-2006, 12:24 PM

Vatican denies any plans to rehabilitate Judas

Quote:

On Jan. 12 an article in the Times newspaper of London claimed that Monsignor Brandmüller is leading a campaign from the Vatican to convince believers of Judas' goodness.

The Times also stated that some biblical scholars believe that the negative view of Judas has been influenced by anti-Semitic texts.

But in statements to ZENIT, Monsignor Brandmüller clarified that "this news has no foundation."

"Reading the Times I discovered that a campaign exists to rehabilitate Judas and that I am the leader," the Vatican official said. "I have not talked with the Times. I can't imagine where this idea came from.

"In regard to the manuscript, it must be emphasized that the apocryphal gospels belong in the main to a special literary genre, a sort of religious novel that cannot be considered as a documentary source for the historical figure of Judas."

. . .

He added: "Around 180 A.D., Irenaeus of Lyon, [in] 'Against the Heretics,' I,31,1, spoke of an alleged apocryphal gospel of Judas. Later, Epiphanius and a pseudo-Tertullian spoke of it. According to these sources, the apocryphal gospel of Judas was a Greek text of Gnostic origin, written by the Cainites' sect, in the middle of the second century.

"The Gnostic sect of the Cainites attributed a positive value to all the negative figures of the Jewish and Christian Scriptures, such as the tempter serpent, Cain -- hence their name -- Esau and Judas. In any case, the discovery of this manuscript is very interesting, from the point of view of knowledge of paleo-Christian literature."

Chris Weimer · 01-21-2006, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger Pearse

I'm hoping for some more lost patristic works. I wrote to them again last night, and will let people know if anyone responds.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

Any word yet, Roger? Perhaps you can let us know the exact name of the institution and address so that we can also petition the documents' release.

Toto · 02-27-2006, 06:38 PM

Robert Eisenman has weighed in on the question, on the Huffington Post:

Rehabilitating 'Judas Iscariot'

Quote:

In fact, the Lukan version of his death and the Mattathean version do not agree with each other, a normal state of affairs where Gospel recounting is concerned, and the other two gospels do not mention either his death or how he died at all. The point, however, is that the whole character of 'Judas Iscariot' is generated out of whole cloth and it is meant to be. Moreover it is done in a totally malevolent way. The creators of this character and the traditions related to him knew what it was they were seeking to do and in this they have succeeded in a manner far beyond and that would have astonished even their hate-besotted brains.

Judas Iscariot is meant to be both hateful and hated -- a diabolical character despised by all mankind and a byword for treachery and the opposite of all-perfection and the perfect, Gnosticizing Mystery figure embodied in the person of the 'Salvation' figure 'Jesus' -- the name of whom even translates out into 'Saviour.' But in creating this character, the authors of these traditions and these 'Gospels' (often, it is difficult to decide which came first, either 'the Gospels' themselves or the traditions either inspired by or giving inspiration to them) had a dual purpose in mind and in this, as just signaled, he done his job admirably well.

His name very 'Judas' in that time and place was meant (as it is today) both to parody and heap abuse on two favorite characters of the Jews of the age, 'Judas Maccabee,' the hero of Hanukkah festivities to this day, and 'Judas the Galilean,' the legendary founder (described by Josephus) of what one might either wish to call 'the Zealot' or 'the Galilean Movement' (even, as we shall see below, 'the Sicarii') -- and possibly even a third character, called in New Testament tradition 'Judas the Zealot' and very probably the third 'brother' of 'Jesus' known variously as 'Judas of James,' 'Jude the brother of James,' or 'Judas Thomas.' In fact, if he is 'Judas of James,' then he is also 'Thaddaeus' or 'Theudas.'

. . .

Roger Pearse · 02-28-2006, 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Weimer

Any word yet, Roger? Perhaps you can let us know the exact name of the institution and address so that we can also petition the documents' release.

Nothing came back. There are some details here, and the email address I used.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

Toto · 03-02-2006, 11:21 PM

Expert predicts Gospel of Judas will be a dud

Quote:

James M. Robinson, America's leading expert on such ancient religious texts from Egypt, predicts in a new book that the text won't offer any insights into the disciple who betrayed Jesus. His reason: While it's old, it's not old enough.

"Does it go back to Judas? No," Robinson told The Associated Press on Thursday.

. . .

Robinson writes that the journey of the text to Switzerland was "replete with smugglers, black-market antiquities dealers, religious scholars, backstabbing partners and greedy entrepreneurs." In the process, Robinson fears, the fragile text may have been mishandled and parts of it lost forever.

Robinson is an emeritus professor at Claremont (Calif.) Graduate University, chief editor of religious documents found in 1945 at Nag Hammadi, Egypt, and an international leader among scholars of Coptic manuscripts.

He says the text is valuable to scholars of the second century but dismissed the notion that it'll reveal unknown biblical secrets. He speculated the timing of the release is aimed at capitalizing on interest in the film version of "The Da Vinci Code" - a fictional tale that centers on a Christian conspiracy to cover up a marriage between Jesus and Mary Magdalene.

A National Geographic response said "it's ironic" for Robinson to raise such questions since for years "he tried unsuccessfully to acquire this codex himself, and is publishing his own book in April, despite having no direct access to the materials."

Robinson's book is The Secrets of Judas: The Story of the Misunderstood Disciple and His Lost Gospel due to be released April 11.

Roger Pearse · 03-03-2006, 02:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Expert predicts Gospel of Judas will be a dud

I have plenty of time for Robinson. Without his efforts -- endless politicking with UNESCO etc -- none of the Nag Hammadi material or the Manichaean material from Medinet Madu would ever have been published, even now. He tracked down the find site, made the stuff available in English and did everything to get the texts in the hands of everyman. That the GOJ is a second-century production is obvious to everyone; that's not news. It's still interesting!

That National Geographic want to pretend that it is first century in order to stir up controversy and sell books really saddens me. The study of the NT apocrypha is not well served by using it to insult the religion of the huge numbers of people in churches across the world who might otherwise be interested in this relic of early Christianity. How better to get them to ignore it?

Papyrology is desperately short of money. No-one is even looking for books in Egypt, although clearly there must be dozens under the sands. Why? Because no-one will pay for it and no-one cares. Any US mega-church could run an expedition. None of them do because they've been convinced that the subject is merely an excuse for a Christian-bash. This sort of funding a century ago was responsible for all sorts of archaeological finds. But now? Nothing. Who benefits from stifling research by severing the discipline from its natural support base among the general public? No-one, as far as I can see.

I had hoped for some impetus for papyrological studies from the GOJ, but it seems the lust for Christian-baiting will once again destroy the possibility of advancing the interests of scholarship. I suspect that Robinson realises all of this, and is trying to limit the damage. Good on him, if so.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

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01-16-2006, 01:30 PM	#31
jakejonesiv Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Atlanta Posts: 2,060	Judas und das „Judas-Evangelium“ Hermann Detering, Berlin 2005 English summary by Klaus Schilling Jake Jones IV

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