Freethought & Rationalism Archive

yinyang · 04-28-2008, 09:27 AM

I recently read Thomas Paine's Age of Reason, where he states that the old testament "Prophets" are really poets, and the word for poet was deliberately mistranslated by xtians for their own purposes.

Does anyone know if/when/who is involved. I.E. is there any direct evidence for this argument.

Looking for examples like (cardinal A inserted mistranslation B into book C, type of thing, and hopefully anyone familiar with the source languages.

Thanks in advance.

premjan · 04-28-2008, 09:36 AM

How come more of them didn't write their prophecies in verse? How come poets aren't mistakenly called prophets?

Toto · 04-28-2008, 11:01 AM

Paine in Age of Reason:

Quote:

All the remaining parts of the Bible, generally known by the name of the Prophets, are the works of the Jewish poets and itinerant preachers, who mixed poetry, anecdote, and devotion together--and those works still retain the air and style of poetry, though in translation. [NOTE: As there are many readers who do not see that a composition is poetry, unless it be in rhyme, it is for their information that I add this note.

Poetry consists principally in two things--imagery and composition. The composition of poetry differs from that of prose in the manner of mixing long and short syllables together. Take a long syllable out of a line of poetry, and put a short one in the room of it, or put a long syllable where a short one should be, and that line will lose its poetical harmony. It will have an effect upon the line like that of misplacing a note in a song.

. . .

There is not, throughout the whole book called the Bible, any word that describes to us what we call a poet, nor any word that describes what we call poetry. The case is, that the word prophet, to which a later times have affixed a new idea, was the Bible word for poet, and the word 'propesytng' meant the art of making poetry. It also meant the art of playing poetry to a tune upon any instrument of music.

* * *

It has been shewn, in a former part of this work, that the original meaning of the words prophet and prohesying has been changed, and that a prophet, in the sense of the word as now used, is a creature of modem invention; and it is owing to this change in the meaning of the words, that the flights and metaphors of the Jewish poets, and phrases and expressions now rendered obscure by our not being acquainted with the local circumstances to which they applied at the time they were used, have been erected into prophecies, and made to bend to explanations at the will and whimsical conceits of sectaries, expounders, and commentators. Every thing unintelligible was prophetical, and every thing insignificant was typical. A blunder would have served for a prophecy; and a dish-clout for a type.

I don't see where Paine calls this a deliberate mistranslation. He seems to just be saying that we have lost the original meaning.

There is an extensive and somewhat idiosyncratic Christian commentary on this here

The Old Testament World (or via: amazon.co.uk) By John Rogerson, Philip R. Davies

Quote:

If, as we have seen, they seem not to have liked the title "prophet", what should we call them? Robert Carroll suggested "poet"... Indeed, in the case of Isaiah 40-55 (Second Isaiah), few scholars would offer a better title, and of course, Biblical prophesy contains more poetry than prose. . ."

04-28-2008, 09:27 AM	#1
yinyang Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 69	Prophets or Poets? I recently read Thomas Paine's Age of Reason, where he states that the old testament "Prophets" are really poets, and the word for poet was deliberately mistranslated by xtians for their own purposes. Does anyone know if/when/who is involved. I.E. is there any direct evidence for this argument. Looking for examples like (cardinal A inserted mistranslation B into book C, type of thing, and hopefully anyone familiar with the source languages. Thanks in advance.

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04-28-2008, 09:36 AM	#2
premjan Obsessed Contributor Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: NJ Posts: 61,538	How come more of them didn't write their prophecies in verse? How come poets aren't mistakenly called prophets?

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