Freethought & Rationalism Archive

GPLindsey · 09-08-2003, 07:33 PM

I'm slugging my way through my first comprehensive read of the Bible in years, and I'm most of the way through the Old Testament. Many contradictions, outrages, useless detail, etc., large and small, have jumped out, but so far the clear winner to me as the biggest contradiction is contained in the following passages (NIV):

2 Samuel 24, vs. 1: "Again the anger of the LORD burned against Israel, and he incited David against them, saying, 'Go and take a census of Israel and Judah.'"

1 Chronicles 21, vs. 1: "SATAN ROSE up against Israel and incited David to take a census of Israel." As far as I recall, this is in fact the first reference to Satan in the Bible.

The contradiction? The verses that follow in these respective chapters detail the exact same series of events, culminating in God sending a plague that killed 70,000 people, so enraged was he that David had succumbed to being incited and had taken a census.

What bigger contradiction can there be to have the Bible say that GOD took some action in one verse, and then credit the same action to SATAN later on? Aren't God and Satan, by definition, the exact opposites? The only possible (irrational) rationale for these verses is that the Lord incited David through the agency of Satan. Such an explanation makes a mockery of the function of language and simply supports the atheist criticism that Satan is just God's underling.

Can anyone beat this contradiction? What's the best one out there?

Grumpy · 09-08-2003, 10:22 PM

This topic again?

Another chance to thump my old standby:
1 Corinthians 14:33 "God is not the author of confusion..."
vs.
2 Timothy 3:16 "All scripture is God-breathed..."

Given the indisputable fact that scripture is confusing, it's enough to make smoke come out of your ears.

GakuseiDon · 09-09-2003, 02:03 AM

From the Skeptics Annotated Bible:

Jesus says there are 12 hours in a day:

Quote:

11:9 Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world.

11:10 But if a man walk in the night, he stumbleth, because there is no light in him.

SAB's note: http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/jn/11.html

Quote:

Jesus claims that there are twelve hours in a day. But that is true on only two days of the year: the equinoxes. On all other days the sun shines for more or less than twelve hours.

demoninho · 09-09-2003, 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by GakuseiDon
Jesus says there are 12 hours in a day

And this was correct by definition in those days: an hour was 1/12th part of the time between sunset and sunrise

(as opposed by our definition (more or less) of 1/24th of the time it takes the earth to fully revolve around it's axis )

I wish the skeptics had a section with true contradictions and one with more iffy really fundy contradictions. Everytime you show the list (>400 of them) and fundy refutes one he sees the whole list as nonsense because he picked out an easily debunkable contradiction

GakuseiDon · 09-09-2003, 02:36 AM

Another from the Skeptics Annotated Bible:

Does the Bible say that dancing is a sin? Yes, says the SAB, according to this verse:

Quote:

Matthew 14:6-8
But when Herod's birthday was kept, the daughter of Herodias danced before them, and pleased Herod. Whereupon he promised with an oath to give her whatsoever she would ask. And she, being before instructed of her mother, said, Give me here John Baptist's head in a charger.

Full list here: http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/dancing.html

Celsus · 09-09-2003, 02:42 AM

These examples just go to show how stupid the SAB is. I wish skeptics and nontheists would drop these sorts of nonsensical arguments in favour of stronger arguments.

Joel

GakuseiDon · 09-09-2003, 02:50 AM

Another from the Skeptics Annotated Bible:

Does the Bible say that you should not eat animals? Yes, says the SAB, according to these verses:

Quote:

Is.7:14-15
"Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good."

Dan.1:8
"But Daniel purposed in his heart that he would not defile himself with the portion of the king's meat...."

Full list here: http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/eat.html

My reason for highlighting these: As a Christian (and a skeptic) I believe that there are contradictions in the Bible (e.g. the rooster crowing twice), and I think they should indeed be highlighted. But the SAB doesn't go below a surface reading of the text - in fact, the author is quite happy saying that one doesn't need to know anything about the Bible, or it's linguistic and cultural history, in order to properly criticise it and determine its meaning. I hope the contradictions that get listed in this thread don't follow the SAB examples!

demoninho · 09-09-2003, 02:55 AM

SAB is still the best place to find them and the web design is really good because the do have the whole hyperlinked bible online but the contradictions list you just have use it as a guide rather than a list to smite your theist opponents with.

Aravnah Ornan · 09-09-2003, 07:22 AM

Just try reading the various ways set forth in the Bible to be saved and achieve eternal life. Could the Bible possibly have a more important message? Yet different Bible verses say different things on whether faith is sufficient, whether faith along with confession is sufficient, whether baptism is a requirement, and what, if anything, good works and keeping the commandments have to do with it. If by the greatest contradiction you mean the one with the greatest consequence, that has to be it.

Aerik Von · 09-09-2003, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Celsus
These examples just go to show how stupid the SAB is. I wish skeptics and nontheists would drop these sorts of nonsensical arguments in favour of stronger arguments.

Joel

Agreed.

09-08-2003, 07:33 PM	#1
GPLindsey Regular Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 221	What is the GREATEST Bible contradiction? I'm slugging my way through my first comprehensive read of the Bible in years, and I'm most of the way through the Old Testament. Many contradictions, outrages, useless detail, etc., large and small, have jumped out, but so far the clear winner to me as the biggest contradiction is contained in the following passages (NIV): 2 Samuel 24, vs. 1: "Again the anger of the LORD burned against Israel, and he incited David against them, saying, 'Go and take a census of Israel and Judah.'" 1 Chronicles 21, vs. 1: "SATAN ROSE up against Israel and incited David to take a census of Israel." As far as I recall, this is in fact the first reference to Satan in the Bible. The contradiction? The verses that follow in these respective chapters detail the exact same series of events, culminating in God sending a plague that killed 70,000 people, so enraged was he that David had succumbed to being incited and had taken a census. What bigger contradiction can there be to have the Bible say that GOD took some action in one verse, and then credit the same action to SATAN later on? Aren't God and Satan, by definition, the exact opposites? The only possible (irrational) rationale for these verses is that the Lord incited David through the agency of Satan. Such an explanation makes a mockery of the function of language and simply supports the atheist criticism that Satan is just God's underling. Can anyone beat this contradiction? What's the best one out there?

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09-08-2003, 10:22 PM	#2
Grumpy Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Alaska, USA Posts: 1,535	This topic again? Another chance to thump my old standby: 1 Corinthians 14:33 "God is not the author of confusion..." vs. 2 Timothy 3:16 "All scripture is God-breathed..." Given the indisputable fact that scripture is confusing, it's enough to make smoke come out of your ears.

09-09-2003, 02:42 AM	#6
Celsus Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Singapore Posts: 2,875	These examples just go to show how stupid the SAB is. I wish skeptics and nontheists would drop these sorts of nonsensical arguments in favour of stronger arguments. Joel

09-09-2003, 02:55 AM	#8
demoninho Senior Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 927	SAB is still the best place to find them and the web design is really good because the do have the whole hyperlinked bible online but the contradictions list you just have use it as a guide rather than a list to smite your theist opponents with.

09-09-2003, 07:22 AM	#9
Aravnah Ornan Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Alexandria, VA, Faith-Based States of Jesusland Posts: 1,794	Just try reading the various ways set forth in the Bible to be saved and achieve eternal life. Could the Bible possibly have a more important message? Yet different Bible verses say different things on whether faith is sufficient, whether faith along with confession is sufficient, whether baptism is a requirement, and what, if anything, good works and keeping the commandments have to do with it. If by the greatest contradiction you mean the one with the greatest consequence, that has to be it.

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