stephan huller

I am sure I am going to get flack from some who will claim that this has nothing to do with Biblical criticism but I will strongly disagree. Celsus makes absolutely explicit on a number of occasions that he is certain the author of the gospel - a figure we may call 'Mark' - stole all his ideas from Plato. While scholars traditionally ignore the Marcosians as a viable tradition of scriptural exegesis, Kennedy's theories about Plato clearly demonstrate that the followers of Mark may well have been inspired as much by Plato as they were Moses. We could also reference Philo and the Alexandrian Jewish tradition, Justus bar Pistis of Tiberias, Clement, Origen and the rest of the Alexandrian Christian tradition but by now I think I have made my point.

For those of us claiming that there was a 'gospel secret' woven into the original narrative by Mark, the claims of Dr. Kennedy are essential to establish a precedent for such 'outlandish claims.'

In any event I received this email from a reader of my blog who is doing a podcast interview with the author. I thought I would share it with y'all:

Dear Stephan,

I thought you might be interested in my podcast of Friday, an interview with Dr. Jay Kennedy regarding Plato's code. Copied below is my email blast.

Best,

g.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Dear [first name],

For some reason that escapes me, thus far the news has failed to reach this side of the Atlantic. Dr. Jay Kennedy, a Stanford Ph.D. at the University of Manchester, in a truly amazing discovery has found secret musical/mathematical codes in Plato's writings. Plato, it turns out, was a card-carrying Pythagorean who believed that science could explain everything. This implied, of course, that the Gods were not to be propitiated, a view that could well, in ancient Greece, have led to Plato's execution. So Plato promulgated his philosophy in hidden form, known to initiates but not others. It's a mind-boggling achievement.

If you're wondering what this might have to do with contemporary politics, to give just one example I hasten to remind you that the neoconservatives have deep roots in the teachings of a renowned Platonist, Leo Strauss, of the University of Chicago. Strauss believed, to give a quick and dirty summary, that thanks to Plato he and his acolytes were the real elite, meant to rule the world. Strauss was actually right in thinking that Platonic texts contained secret meanings, but now we know Strauss was completely clueless about what those meanings were. I suppose the neocons must seek other sources of philosophical legitimacy... And if you ask me, they had it coming.

The wider implications of a revolutionary reinterpretation of Plato I leave to your imagination.

I'm particularly pleased with this one and I hope you enjoy it.

Thanks for listening!

Best,

g.


http://www.electricpolitics.com/podc...os_secret.html

Doug Shaver

Let's see . . . we've got someone who professes to be baffled by media inattention to a "truly amazing discovery" having to do with secret codes in ancient but very famous and well-studied writings.

Is there something wrong with me if I immediately think "snake oil"?

Toto

You might have misheard. I thought he was baffled by the media attention to his arcane piece of history. He seems to be a reputable academic, and his work is treated seriously by the science media. But I would like to read more about it.

The actual paper is here

Elijah

I thought he was going someplace like, is the reason no one has picked this work up over here because it is crazy?, but nope. I did like his description of different cultures personalities are reflections of their major philosophical influence’s.
Talking about Plato’s influence on Christianity is a hobby horse of mine so you are encouraged to talk about that often here. Where does Celsus say the gospel authors stole their ideas from Plato?

mountainman

Hi Stephan,

Thanks for this. I am only one third through and taking notes.
Will post them later today. Doug, caution is always warranted,
but we must still investigate the devil in the details of the data.
Sometimes its a long way down.

mountainman

PODCST NOTES:

The following are rough notes taken.
(beware of typos)
The author did not present any details.
The details will be found in the author's papers.




Author describes this as a
"Revolutionary and shocking discovery."


Plato wrote using symbolism.
Audience = understood th

Plato wrote in a Dangerous (poliical Athenian etc) period
He wrote for contemopories by using symbols.
He was a pythagorean.

Technical treatise c.000 CE with code that Plato used.
Book - 1st century CE (debated)

"Hidden message in Plato"?

Have to read in between the lines.

Strauss (academic Plato expert) corrected guesses the writing of Plato was symbolic.
Music theory via Pythagoras was required to unlock "code" (symbology).

History of science has changed alot.
Used to be "official science".
Now we try and understand the ancient "pseudo-science".

Familiarity with Pythorgean music.
Aristotle claimed Plato was a Pythagorean.
This was a surprise to scholars.

Many (probably hundreds of) ways to prove "Pythagorean theorem".
Chinese, etc

PLATO used musical notion ....

Pythagoras -- book of nature is mathematical.
Strange idea in ancient times - Pythagoras and followers violently persecuted.

Plato founder of western tradition - Pythagirean.
Cosmos has a maths structure.

Suggests myths about Gods are wrong


Science and maths govern the world.

Plato had to hide this idea.


ANNOTATE BOOKS OF PLATO.

Great traditions of detailed commentaries on Plato.
Revolutionise these commentaries.

Aristotlean ideas already embedded in Plato.


Aristotole 40 years yourneger
Studied 20 years

Aristotle mocked the Pythagoreans.

Aristotle was not close (philosophically) [politically?] to Plato.

Plato is an artist and deeper thinker.

Intimacy between their thought is less today.


NEW EVIDENCE

Plato forgeries - some can be (3 or 4) "genuine"

One of these is "dawn if science" text = PLATO

Late and prevously thought inauthentic works of Plato may be genuine.


****************

CONCEPT OF ZERO

Debate about Plato.
Writing is admired.
Did he lauch organised science in academy?

Was he an armchair philisopher/scientist?

CODE implies elaborate advance mathematical techniques

Greeks did not have ZERO

Maths turned to scienc eabout the time of Plato.
Plato seems at the core.

Debate about Greeks ?

Babylonians ? Complicated history.

No numerical symbol by Greeks for zero.




Monday PRESS Release:
UK, Europe, India, US



Competant Classicists response?

Scholarly response = peer reviewed paper.
Enthusiastic: Lectures have been arranged.

The debate and verification will take YEARS.
No substantial criticisms at this point.


Which Plato book to be read first?

Author recommends SYMPOSIUM
Plato: ON LOVE AND SEX

One of the great pieces of literature.


PAPER.

Musical structure in text.
Passages at regular intervals,
Further papers forthcoming.


HOST COMMENTS:

The ideas of the ancients have direct relevance
to the way we try and understand the world today.


Author studied other areas ...
Confusious shaped the personality of Asia.

PLATO

The way of life in Plato = Western civilisation
Not just important as history,
He created the way we talk, think, value
and the differences that distiguish "western culture".



HOST:

Is the DEITY these divine laws?



PLATO was a Pythagorean
Science and religion should be unified.
The beauty of music depends on maths.
Harmony is related to arithmetic relations.

Pythagoreansos ... maths has beauty, therefore GOOD, therefore DIVINE.

They said ...

Worship nature! order and beauty
But we dont need the myths.
of the old religons.

Plato was both a mystic and a rational.
Underneath symbols show his mysticism.


REINCARNATION?

Sciencific view or mystical view?

Both Plato and Pythagoras believed
in the IMMORTALITY OF THE SOUL.

mountainman

This article has the detail. Here is a quote that seems to summarise what the author is up to:

and a bit more later on about the (Pythagorean) 12 part scale....


After discussing the central concepts in Plato's works which seem clustered about their stichometric center, the author is discussing Negative concepts which appear to statistically cluster around ten twelfths to elevent twelfths (via the stichometry) in the works.

It is interesting that he cites this:

This is the fragment we find preserved within the Nag Hammadi codex.

Doug Shaver

I was picking up on this:
Thanks. I may take a look at it when I have a few spare minutes.