Decypher

An argument that I came across over on the CARM forums:

Anyone have thoughts on this?

Minimalist

Provided that "Festus" sent "Paul" anywhere.

Does Josephus mention this fact? Or is it more "bible-thumper-waves-bible-to-prove-bible" stuff?

aa5874

I think that the Gospels were written after the writings of Josephus, or after the passages in Antiquities of the Jews that made reference to John the Baptist. All four Gospels contain information about John the Baptist, however, by the inclusion of Herod, Herodias, Philip and the request to have someone beheaded, it seems to me that the author of Mark may have retrieved this information from Antiquities of the Jews.

Acts appear to be a fictitious account with it's primary goal of positioning "Paul" in a time zone when he did not exist. In Acts, "Paul" met and interacted with Agrippa, Felix and Drusilla, Porcius Festus and Gamaliel, yet the "Paul" of the Epistles made no mention of these people at all or gave any details of his trials at Rome, or any other place, except that he was, ambiguously, a prisoner of Christ.

And strange enough, Josephus and "Paul" both got shipwrecked on their way to Rome, at around 63CE. Josephus, born 37CE, in the Life of Josephus, " But when I was in the twenty-sixth year of my age, it happened that I took a voyage to Rome........At the time when Felix was procurator of Judea there were certain preists of my acquaintance, and vey excellent persons they were, whom on some small triling he had put in bonds, and sent to Rome to plead their cause before Caesar".

It appears to me that, Annals 15.44, by Tacitus, The Life of Nero 16, by Suetonius and Antiquities of the Jews book 18.5.1, by Josephus, all were written before the Gospels, and that the Gospels were probably written sometime in 2nd century.

Freethinkaluva

"...the Gospels were probably written sometime in 2nd century."

- Yep, that's what I'm seeing more & more now. In her new book, "Who Was Jesus? Fingerprints of The Christ" Acharya makes a really good case for the Gospels as we know them, to have been written towards the end of the second century.

A little is in her forum here titled "Late Dating of the Gospels"
http://forums.truthbeknown.com/viewt...?t=891&start=0

Solitary Man

Pretty much bunk since we have the terminus ante quem for Matthew as early 2nd century, which means Mark must have been circulating and popular enough by then for it to be used by Matthew, and contextually Mark, Matthew, and Luke are all dated to the end of the first century.

Freethinkaluva

Apparently you didn't read the material I provided in the link above, which I highly recommend. Also, Acharya discusses the subject in greater depth in her book Suns of God - here's an excerpt for the late dating of the gospels:

http://www.truthbeknown.com/historicaljc.htm

Also, do actually read her arguments on her forum regarding the late dating of the gospels.

We know the standard argument for the dating of the gospels as you have summarized above. This argument is based on wishful thinking, not on scientific evidence. By "contextually," you are saying the dates are based on internal evidence only that presumes the gospel to be a historical and accurate representation. In fact, there is no scientific external evidence for the dates proposed by the mainstream authorities - especially not for the very early dates of evangelist scholars. No evidence at all! And that's what Acharya goes by - the evidence, which shows that the gospels appear in the literary and historical record at the END of the second century, not before.

I just thought there would be people here who would interested in seeing this fascinating research, especially the quotes from church fathers like Jerome and Epiphanius about the "many" that Luke talks about in the first chapter of his gospel. You can find those quotes here:

http://forums.truthbeknown.com/viewt...?t=891&start=0

This info Acharya provides here is also part of her new book Who Was Jesus?, which should be out soon.

Again, I'm always just trying to share what I think is fascinating information and research. Obviously, you can take it or leave, but I'd think that if you're interested in the subject, you'd want to read it. So that's why I'm posting.