Freethought & Rationalism Archive

mountainman · 05-08-2013, 04:37 PM

There are at least two ancient manuscript sources that present Jesus laughing. Needless to say they are not contained within the humourless books of the canonical bible. The sources are gnostic, from the Nag Hammadi codices. At the end of the text the "Laughing Jesus" speaks directly to Jesus and Peter.

Is the "Laughing Jesus" the gnostic "daimon" (δαίμων) of Jesus?

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainman

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

If the Jesus story was composed 300 years after the event that Jesus was the Son of God of the Jews how in the world could people who believed in multiple Myth Gods prove another Myth God did not exist?

Consider the opening phrase to the Nag Hammadi Codex 7.3 Apocalypse of Peter:

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Apocalypse of Peter, Translated by James Brashler and Roger A. Bullard

As the Savior was sitting in the temple in the three hundredth (year) of the covenant .....

The author goes on to write that: "The Bishops are dry canals". Jesus is presented as laughing about the whole situation ... "He whom you saw on the tree, glad and laughing, this is the living Jesus."

What temple was the Saviour sitting in in the three hundredth (year) of the covenant ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

Quote:

"He whom you saw on the tree, glad and laughing, this is the living Jesus."

This is really a quite unusual and interesting quote. (wish you had supplied the context however)

Here is a selection of the text containing multiple references to Jesus laughing. The text is NHC 7.3 Apocalypse of Peter which, we have seen, opens with this three hundred year anachronism: "As the Savior was sitting in the temple in the three hundredth (year) of the covenant .....".

In the text Jesus and Peter chat. The setting is the usual non canonical post resurrection appearance / halucination / dream. (The text ends with "When he (Jesus) had said these things, he (Peter) came to himself." Here is the bit about the "Laughing Jesus" (LJ):

Jesus is talking to Peter. Jesus has just berated a few things and now turns his attention to the bishops and deacons:

Quote:

Originally Posted by JESUS

"And there shall be others of those who are outside our number who name themselves bishop and also deacons, as if they have received their authority from God. They bend themselves under the judgment of the leaders. Those people are dry canals."

Three hundred years after the covenant Constantine personally appointed bishops. Over 1800 of them according to one source.
Was Jesus prescient, or is the author of this NHC text talking to us from after Nicaea?

Quote:

Originally Posted by PETER

But I said " I am afraid because of what you have told me, that indeed little (ones) are, in our view, the counterfeit ones, indeed, that there are multitudes that will mislead other multitudes of living ones, and destroy them among themselves. And when they speak your name they will be believed."

Quote:

Originally Posted by JESUS

The Savior said, "For a time determined for them in proportion to their error they will rule over the little ones. And after the completion of the error, the never-aging one of the immortal understanding shall become young, and they (the little ones) shall rule over those who are their rulers. The root of their error he shall pluck out, and he shall put it to shame so that it shall be manifest in all the impudence which it has assumed to itself. And such ones shall become unchangeable, O Peter."

"Come therefore, let us go on with the completion of the will of the incorruptible Father. For behold, those who will bring them judgment are coming, and they will put them to shame. But me they cannot touch. And you, O Peter, shall stand in their midst. Do not be afraid because of your cowardice. Their minds shall be closed, for the invisible one has opposed them."

Quote:

Originally Posted by PETER

When he had said those things, I saw him seemingly being seized by them. And I said "What do I see, O Lord? That it is you yourself whom they take, and that you are grasping me? Or who is this one, glad and laughing on the tree? And is it another one whose feet and hands they are striking?"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesus

The Savior said to me, "He whom you saw on the tree, glad and laughing, this is the living Jesus. But this one into whose hands and feet they drive the nails is his fleshly part, which is the substitute being put to shame, the one who came into being in his likeness. But look at him and me."

Quote:

Originally Posted by PETER

But I, when I had looked, said "Lord, no one is looking at you. Let us flee this place."

Quote:

Originally Posted by JESUS

But he said to me, "I have told you, 'Leave the blind alone!'. And you, see how they do not know what they are saying. For the son of their glory instead of my servant, they have put to shame."

Quote:

Originally Posted by PETER

And I saw someone about to approach us resembling him, even him who was laughing on the tree. And he was <filled> with a Holy Spirit, and he is the Savior. And there was a great, ineffable light around them, and the multitude of ineffable and invisible angels blessing them. And when I looked at him, the one who gives praise was revealed.

Then follows the talk of someone about to approach JESUS and PETER resembling him, even him who was laughing on the tree. This is neither JESUS or PETER about to speak, but a manifestation of the "Laughing Jesus"

Quote:

Originally Posted by THE HISTORICAL LAUGHING JESUS

And he said to me, "Be strong, for you are the one to whom these mysteries have been given, to know them through revelation, that he whom they crucified is the first-born, and the home of demons, and the stony vessel in which they dwell, of Elohim, of the cross, which is under the Law. But he who stands near him is the living Savior, the first in him, whom they seized and released, who stands joyfully looking at those who did him violence, while they are divided among themselves. Therefore he laughs at their lack of perception, knowing that they are born blind. So then the one susceptible to suffering shall come, since the body is the substitute. But what they released was my incorporeal body. But I am the intellectual Spirit filled with radiant light. He whom you saw coming to me is our intellectual Pleroma, which unites the perfect light with my Holy Spirit."

"These things, then, which you saw you shall present to those of another race who are not of this age. For there will be no honor in any man who is not immortal, but only (in) those who were chosen from an immortal substance, which has shown that it is able to contain him who gives his abundance. Therefore I said, 'Every one who has, it will be given to him, and he will have plenty.' But he who does not have, that is, the man of this place, who is completely dead, who is removed from the planting of the creation of what is begotten, whom, if one of the immortal essence appears, they think that they possess him - it will be taken from him and be added to the one who is. You, therefore, be courageous and do not fear at all. For I shall be with you in order that none of your enemies may prevail unto you. Peace be to you, Be strong!"

When he (Jesus) had said these things, he (Peter) came to himself.

Amazing stuff eh?

It's even got the appearance of Chiasmus

Be Strong Luke Skywalker!

Do we here have a direct quote from the Historical Laughing Jesus.?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

Many years ago, troubled by the apparent unrelenting glumness of Biblegod, I did a search of the Scriptures to see if I could find any of those "you know ...the happy texts" (Pollyanna H.) wherein 'God' or 'Jesus' ever laughed at anything in simple joy and happy humor.

I could post every verse that I found ....but I won't.

The only laughter ever coming from 'God' to be found in the entire Bible is when he mocks or destroys men.
(I didn't try to include old 'apocryphal' texts because they are simply too numerous, the surviving texts too inconsistent, and their content mostly too ridiculous, and either unknown or flat out rejected.)

Their content appears ridiculous but someone went to a great deal of trouble to make the steps to preserve such stories in the face of their destruction.

Dont write off the apochrypha texts just yet Shesh.

The author has Jesus tell us that the "bishops are dry canals" 300 years after the covenant.\

Quote:

When you actually look for instances of laughter from the 'God' of the Bible, he comes off looking like nothing more an plotting, evil-minded, insane, gleefully cackling Moloch.

As a believer at that time, I accounted that if there were a 'God' or 'Yahweh', and he wished for mankind to know something, he would place it in texts that were consistent and readily available to anyone who cared to look.
(With his Divine intercession and personal guidance being a daily fact of life ya know.)

'Laughing'....hmm, know of any other instances where God or 'Jesus' is described as being happy, or enjoying a good humored laugh? One that is not at the enjoyment and expense of someone else's suffering loss, misery, or torment?
I don't.

( Found one instance where 'Jesus' is described as being 'glad' (Jn 11:15) but the context certainly suggest he meant something other than joy.)

.

Well I think its a good question to ask whether either Jesus or his LXX God ever laughed.

We seem to agree that the bible is humourless.

There is another text in the Nag Hammadi Codices that depicts Jesus LOL!

NHC 7.2 The Second Treatise of the Great Seth

Quote:

Originally Posted by NOTES

Gnostic - Docetic: Jesus who did not die on the cross, but laughs [NHC 07.2]

It depicts a Jesus who did not die on the cross.

"For my death, which they think happened, (happened) to them in their error and blindness,
since they nailed their man unto their death...It was another, their father, who drank the gall and the vinegar; it was not I.
They struck me with the reed; it was another, Simon, who bore the cross on his shoulder.
I[t] was another upon Whom they placed the crown of thorns...
And I was laughing at their ignorance."
(Jesus as purported narrator).

Elsewhere .... "we were hated and persecuted, not only by those who are ignorant, but also by those who think that they are advancing the name of Christ, since they were unknowingly empty, not knowing who they are, like dumb animals. They persecuted those who have been liberated by me, since they hate them..." .

So we have produced attestations for a Laughing Jesus from NHC 7.2 and NHC 7.3

Are there any more?

Back to a summary of part of the question Does Jesus or his god laugh and if so when?

Jesus appears (docetically) to laugh from the cross after Nicaea - 300 years after the purported covenant.

But the "Laughing Jesus" speaks to Jesus and Peter.

So is the "Laughing Jesus" the gnostic "daimon" (δαίμων) (i.e. "guardian spirit") of Jesus?

LOL!

εὐδαιμονία | eudaimonia

Sheshbazzar · 05-08-2013, 07:01 PM

So, that's two non-'Scriptural' texts that present 'Jesus' as laughing , but like the rest it is in a glum context.
He is laughing because someone else took his place on the cross, and men have been tricked into thinking it is him?
Is that really funny? hilarious?

The kind of 'laughter' related here, is not the normal human emotion such as arises in friendly communications among people that are enjoying life and laughing at the foibles of human nature.
But the devious laughter of the demented and dishonest, the laughter of a plotter and trickster that is delighted in having 'pulled a fast one'. sick laughter.

Apparently that is all biblegod has in his bag, sick laughter to go with sick machinations against defenseless men.

Duvduv · 05-08-2013, 07:08 PM

Does the Laughing Jesus relate in any way to the Laughing Buddha???

Sheshbazzar · 05-08-2013, 08:13 PM

I doubt it, Buddha's laughter appears to be about pleasure and enjoyment of life.

'Jesus' pleasure and enjoyment laughter comes from the thrill setting up situations
so as to have an excuse to fry the most humans he possibly can for all of eternity.
while he watches, insanely laughing his ass off.

mountainman · 05-09-2013, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

So, that's two non-'Scriptural' texts that present 'Jesus' as laughing , but like the rest it is in a glum context.

Have you taken the time to read the context Shesh, the other texts in the Nag Hammadi codices?

These texts and books from my estimation were physically manufactured in the same epoch that the official Bible codices were being promulgated by Constantine and his sons - the epoch 325 - 360 CE.

They appear to me to be clearly fall into that classification of books described by Eusebius as the books of the heretics.

These two non-'Scriptural' texts are part of the evidence.

The heretics are speaking to us directly.

But what is their story?

What are they saying?

Quote:

He is laughing because someone else took his place on the cross, and men have been tricked into thinking it is him?

There are other texts which have Judas being crucified instead of Jesus. Doesn't the Quran use one of these (gMatthew?).

Why would the heretics be writing such stories?

Quote:

Is that really funny? hilarious?

The political context is at the moment not known.

In order to answer this question the political context is essential.

Quote:

The kind of 'laughter' related here, is not the normal human emotion such as arises in friendly communications among people that are enjoying life and laughing at the foibles of human nature.

But the devious laughter of the demented and dishonest, the laughter of a plotter and trickster that is delighted in having 'pulled a fast one'. sick laughter.

Apparently that is all biblegod has in his bag, sick laughter to go with sick machinations against defenseless men.

I think that it is possible that the heretics were the defenceless men at that time when the bible was first elevated to the purple, and when the conversion of the pagan populace to the centralised monotheistic state religion was effected by the sword, and enhanced by Christian state inquisitions against the defenceless populace as attested by Ammianus in the late 350's.

Does Jesus or the God of Jesus laugh in the canonical bible?

εὐδαιμονία | eudaimonia

mountainman · 05-13-2013, 05:19 AM

The Laughing Jesus

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLOG

Jesus does not laugh in any of the four Gospels. This fact might seem strange to us, and even a little scandalous—isn’t Jesus fully man and fully God? Isn’t laughter natural to men? St. Thomas contends that a man with no sense of humor is actually deficient, lacking something that ought to be present in a man fully alive. But Jesus was perfectly man, so where are his casual smiles, his amused chuckles, and his belly laughs?

Some of the most popular current answers to this question seem to miss the mark, more or less widely. Some scholars apply form criticism to Jesus’ speech as recorded in the Gospels and conclude that he did in fact use comic rhetorical devices like irony, satire, puns, and sarcasm; so even if we don’t see Jesus laughing, we see him using modes of speech designed to strike others as incongruous, and perhaps even funny. Other scholars—and artists like Ralph Kozak—say that the nature of Jesus’ message surely must have led him to smile; one scholar argues that it is impossible to imagine Jesus preaching the Beatitudes without a joyous grin on his face.

A much smaller group, popularly led by religious conspiracy theorists Timothy Freke and Peter Gandy, uses Gnostic texts like The Gospel of Judas to contend that Jesus did, in fact, laugh a great deal, generally as a means of signaling to the enlightened among his followers that the unenlightened had committed a spiritual gaffe through ignorance of his secret wisdom.

εὐδαιμονία | eudaimonia

mountainman · 05-13-2013, 05:24 AM

The Laughing Jesus in the Gospel of Judas

Quote:

Originally Posted by April DeConick

In the Gospel of Judas, Jesus laughs no fewer than four times. He laughs not with his disciples but at them — for worshiping incorrectly and for misunderstanding his teachings. “Teacher, why are you laughing at us?” Judas asks. Good question. Pagels and King devote scant attention to it, responding simply that this laughter is intended to spur Jesus’ disciples on to “higher spiritual vision.” To me, however, it just sounds mean-spirited, turning Jesus into the sort of person you wouldn’t like, much less worship.

My response to Prothero's concern is that Jesus' laugh is mean-spirited, directed at the disciples, including Judas, who are trapped in a fate they can't escape. They all worship Ialdabaoth, including Judas, who is as evil as ever. We must keep in mind that this gospel is not a historical representation of what happened between Jesus and his disciples, but is a historical representation of the opinion of the Sethian Gnostics about the apostolic Christians whom they associated with the twelve disciples and a demonic cursed Judas. The Sethian Gnostics are laughing at the apostolic Christians whom they think are ignorant.

εὐδαιμονία | eudaimonia

mountainman · 05-14-2013, 03:19 AM

According to The Laughing Jesus: Religious Lies and Gnostic Wisdom (or via: amazon.co.uk) by Timothy Freke and Peter Gandy, the "Laughing Jesus" is a gnostic motif.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Book Description

What if the Old Testament is a work of fiction, Jesus never existed, and Muhammad was a mobster?

What if the Bible and the Qur'an are works of political propaganda created by Taliban-like fundamentalists to justify the sort of religious violence we are witnessing in the world today?

What if there is a big idea that could free us from the us-versus-them world created by religion and make it possible for us to truly love our neighbors—and even our enemies?

What if it is possible to awaken to a profound state of oneness and love, which the Gnostic Christians symbolized by the enigmatic figure of the laughing Jesus?

Discover for Yourself Why the Gnostic Jesus Laughs

Sources for the "Laughing Jesus" are now the following 3 Gnostic texts:

* The Second Treatise of the Great Seth (NHC 7.2)
* Apocalypse of Peter (NHC 7.3)
* The Gospel of Judas (Codex Tchacos)

εὐδαιμονία | eudaimonia

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

05-08-2013, 07:01 PM	#2
Sheshbazzar Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: On the path of knowledge Posts: 8,889	So, that's two non-'Scriptural' texts that present 'Jesus' as laughing , but like the rest it is in a glum context. He is laughing because someone else took his place on the cross, and men have been tricked into thinking it is him? Is that really funny? hilarious? The kind of 'laughter' related here, is not the normal human emotion such as arises in friendly communications among people that are enjoying life and laughing at the foibles of human nature. But the devious laughter of the demented and dishonest, the laughter of a plotter and trickster that is delighted in having 'pulled a fast one'. sick laughter. Apparently that is all biblegod has in his bag, sick laughter to go with sick machinations against defenseless men.

05-08-2013, 07:08 PM	#3
Duvduv Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: USA Posts: 4,095	Does the Laughing Jesus relate in any way to the Laughing Buddha???

05-08-2013, 08:13 PM	#4
Sheshbazzar Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: On the path of knowledge Posts: 8,889	I doubt it, Buddha's laughter appears to be about pleasure and enjoyment of life. 'Jesus' pleasure and enjoyment laughter comes from the thrill setting up situations so as to have an excuse to fry the most humans he possibly can for all of eternity. while he watches, insanely laughing his ass off.

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.