Holly3278

What do you all think about the parallels between Mithraism and Christianity? I personally find them to be very intriguing.

Here are some links that I found concerning this:

http://www.vexen.co.uk/religion/mithraism.html

http://meta-religion.com/World_Relig...stianity_i.htm

http://www.jdstone.org/cr/files/mith...istianity.html

I have no idea how accurate the above links are. I just picked them out from a Google search. Anyway, what do you all think about the parallels between Mithraism and Christianity?

Toto

Hi Holly - you might want to search for Mithra or Mithraism in this forum before jumping in with a seemingly innocent question.

Mithraism and Christianity were both popular religions in the Roman Empire, so there are many parallels - but you can't tell if one religion borrowed from the other, or they both just breathed in the same air.

I can tell you that there is a certain amount of misinformation on Mithra floating around the internet.

Kharakov

Not to mention that those that worship Mothra will be disappointed when Godzilla kicks its ass in Godzilla vs. Mothra and the Snake People.

Roger Pearse

Note the lack of references to ancient sources for statements made about Mithras. This usually indicates hearsay at work. I notice a reference to Freke and Gandy, about whom other posters will no doubt inform you.

"3. Emperor Constantine officially fused Mithraism and Christianity" - almost every word of this paragraph is rubbish, and the source given is a geocities website, itself rubbish.

Grabbing an example:

"During the 1st century BC, a cult of Mithra, made much progress in Rome, after enduring persecution, when some Emperors adopted the religion..."

Yet Mithras may not have existed in the 1st century BC. There is no record of persecution; it was a perfectly legal mystery cult. Note that lack of data on *which* emperors (isn't this something about Caracalla from the Historia Augusta? Anyone remember?)

The writer doesn't understand the difference between Mithras and Sol Invictus.

"Christianity became a synthesis of Mithraistic thought on eternal life gained from the blood of the sacrificed saviour (like a bull), the ultimate sacrifice, and Jewish rituals of ritual animal sacrifice."

I suppose if you know nothing about either Christianity or Mithras such a statement is possible.

This page is anti-factual rubbish. Check it by seeking ancient sources for everything said. They do not exist.

"Most of the research into Mithraism, a religion with many parallels to Christianity, comes from two writers, Cumont and Ulansey. Some Similarities Between Mithraism and Christianity Among the recorded similarities are:

Virgin birth
Twelve followers
Killing and resurrection
Miracles
Birthdate on December 25
Morality
Mankind's savior
Known as the Light of the world"

All rubbish, I'm afraid.

Cumont wrote over a century ago, and his ideas are not held now. Ulansey holds fringe ideas. Neither would endorse this stuff.

That's an orthodox Jewish hate-site, by the way. I remember it because I once went to their forum, asked to see the ancient evidence for one or two of their statements, got abused for asking, and was then banned on the spot.

"1) Hundreds of years before Jesus, according to the Mithraic religion, three Wise Men of Persia came to visit the baby savior-god Mithra, bring him gifts of gold, myrrh and frankincense.
2) Mithra was born on December 25 as told in the “Great Religions of the World”, page 330; “…it was the winter solstice celebrated by ancients as the birthday of Mithraism’s sun god”.c
3) According to Mithraism, before Mithra died on a cross, he celebrated a “Last Supper with his twelve disciples, who represented the twelve signs of the zodiac.
4) After the death of Mithra, his body was laid to rest in a rock tomb.
5) Mithra had a celibate priesthood.
6) Mithra ascended into heaven during the spring (Passover) equinox (the time when the sun crosses the equator making night and day of equal length). "

Every statement in the above 6 points is factually untrue.

The problem with this approach is the willingness of a few rather dishonest individuals (I would include J.D.Stone in this category) to make up lies for reasons of religious hate; and the tendency of all human beings to then repeat as fact stuff that they have read somewhere and found convenient as if it was fact. On matters of political and religious hate, you will find loads of this sort of stuff. (e.g. if you look at anti-semitic sites you'll find that they read very similarly to such material -- the long lists of odd-sounding 'facts' without proper references is a dead giveaway).

Some people suppose that if they can draw some kind of a parallel between two things, this proves connection, indeed derivation. This, of course, is wrong, unless the parallel is very close and the instances very characteristic and unusual.

An example of getting this wrong would be Atlantis cultists. They point to pyramids in Egypt and pyramids in Mexico, and assert that this proves Atlantis existed. In reality human beings tend to pile blocks of stone on top of one another without needing to see another example.

There are a few genuine parallels between Mithras and Christianity. E.g. Mithras did have seven different ritual meals, one of which was of bread and water; and Justin Martyr refers to this as a mockery of the Christian communion. Clearly he refers to some local circumstance; for ritual meals were a feature of a great number of ancient religions, including Judaism. But such parallels are all of a trivial kind.

I hope that helps. I didn't want to write an essay, but did want to give some kind of reply useful to you on this.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

PhilVaz

As a Catholic, I wanted to honestly assess the whole Mithraism vs. Christianity question after viewing "The God Who Wasn't There." What I give to Mithras:

-- Virgin Born? No, born from a rock.
-- A "Son of God" ? No.
-- A Savior? Yes, a divinity of light and salvation.
-- Performed miracles? No.
-- Communal Meal of Bread/Wine? Yes, but was not considered the "flesh and blood" of God (Mithra).
-- Crucified? No.
-- Resurrected? No.
-- Ascended / Descended ? Yes, ascends to heaven in the Sun's chariot.
-- Divine Judge? No.

My sources: "Mithra" and "Mithraism" in The Encyclopedia of Religion (1987), and The Roman Cult of Mithras: The God and his Mysteries (or via: amazon.co.uk) by Manfred Clauss (Routledge, 2000).

Manfred Clauss in The Roman Cult of Mithras, chapter 14 "Mithras and Christ" discusses the relationship between the two religions:

"...the entire discussion is largely unhistorical. To raise the issue of a competition between the two religions is to assume that Christians and Mithraists had the same aims. Such a view exaggerates the missionary zeal -- itself a Christian idea -- of the other mystery cults. None of them aimed to become the sole legitimate religion of the Roman empire, because they offered an entirely individual and personal salvation. The alternative 'Mithras or Christ?' is wrongly framed, because it postulates a competitive situation which, in the eyes of Mithraists, simply did not exist....We should not simply transpose Christian views and terms in this area onto other mystery cults. Most of the parallels between Mithraism and Christianity are part of the common currency of all mystery cults or can be traced back to common origins in the Graeco-oriental culture of the Hellenistic world. The similarities do not at all suggest mutual influence....there are more substantial parallels at the ritual level, particularly the ritual meal...." (Clauss, The Roman Cult of Mithras, page 168-169)

On the communion or ritual meal, which both St. Justin Martyr (1 Apology 66, c. 150 AD) and Tertullian (c. 200 AD) recognized as similar to the Catholic Eucharist, Clauss concludes:

"The Mithraists evidently believed that they were reborn through the consumption of bread and wine. The food was of course not simply actual or literal food, but also food in the metaphorical sense, which nourished souls after death: the meal was the guarantee of their ascension into the undying light. In the case of these analogies, there can be no question of imitation in either direction. The offering of bread and wine is known in virtually all ancient cultures, and the meal as a means of binding the faithful together and uniting them to the deity was a feature common to many religions. It represented one of the oldest means of manifesting unification with the spiritual, and the appropriation of spiritual qualities....In the ritual meal, Mithras' victory over the bull was celebrated and reproduced. There can be no doubt that the Christian apologists were quite right about its importance for the cult of Mithras as a whole....The ritual meal was probably simply a component of regular common meals. Such meals have always been an essential part of religious assembly; eating and drinking together creates community and renders visible the fact that those who take part are members of one and the same group." (Clauss, The Roman Cult of Mithras, pages 109, 112-113)

There is a newer source on Mithraism I skimmed, but didn't quote from:

The Religion of the Mithras Cult in the Roman Empire (or via: amazon.co.uk) by Roger Beck (Oxford Univ Press, 2006)

In addition, the whole Roman Mithras cult got going around the end of the first century AD, virtually too late to effect first century (New Testament) Christianity. A short article by Catholic Answers is also decent: Jesus and the Pagan Gods.

All one has to do is visit a university library, find the best modern books you can published by reputable scholars: normally these are various university publishers, Routledge, etc. If one uses the Internet for such "research" you have to be very discerning to sift the wheat from the chaff (Matt 3:12; Luke 3:17).

Phil P

vid

Roger: In your reply, i lack link to your own list of primary references to mithra cult

http://www.tertullian.org/rpearse/mithras/

PhilVaz

Khar << Not to mention that those that worship Mothra will be disappointed when Godzilla kicks its ass in Godzilla vs. Mothra and the Snake People. >>

Mothra, or Mothman?

Phil P

robto

Phil, thanks for posting these quotes. Does Clauss give any support for this claim about rebirth? I understood that there are very few references to rebirth in the mystery religions, and I haven't heard of any for Mithraism, let alone references that link rebirth and the meal. I wonder if he gets this entirely from Justin. Clauss seems to be doing what he warned against in the earlier passage: transposing Christian views onto other mystery cults.

PhilVaz

<< Does Clauss give any support for this claim about rebirth? I understood that there are very few references to rebirth in the mystery religions, and I haven't heard of any for Mithraism, let alone references that link rebirth and the meal. >>

I would have to go back to that source. I photocopied several pages from Clauss for my long "parallel pagan" article, but would have to find those again. Clauss might not document that part, but there is a bibliography and plenty of sources given in the book. My section on Mithras summarizes much of the data found in the Encyclopedia of Religion article (1987) which is quite detailed. Clauss (2000) is a very good book, with nice colorful pictures if I remember right. Roger Beck's book is another excellent source that is newer (2006). I would have to re-check those at my university library ( www.USF.edu ) on the rebirth question.

Phil P

andrewcriddle

One of the problems with Justin's comparison of Christianity and Mithraism is that he seems to be comparing the use of bread and water in Christianity and Mithraism rather than comparing the use of bread and wine.

Some suggest that by water Justin really means heavily watered wine, (which was the normal way wine was used in the ancient world), but I am dubious. See http://www.hypotyposeis.org/weblog/2...and-early.html

Andrew Criddle