Shameless Hussy

I have a question re: interpretation of the phrase "judge not lest ye be judged" in Matthew 7:1 of the NT. I was taught that it was a simple admonishment against pointing out the faults of others when you yourself aren't perfect (none of us are), as well as the arrogance of presuming to judge when that is God's job. In other words, strive to understand and forgive others, and have some humility.

However, my baptist mother-in-law claims this phrase only applies to christians judging other christians. It doesn't apply to judging others who are not christian (jews, catholics, democrats, etc.).

Is there any textual support for this interpretation? Sounds like wishful thinking to me, but perhaps my Anglican background has led me astray...

Toto

Catholics and democrats?

Oh well.

I think this little aphorism is sound psychological advice (don't be judgmental), but it disintegrates if you try to extract any meaning from it (can you never condemn any outrightly evil act?)

Here is the opposing case (from scripture, natch)

GOD WANTS US TO JUDGE!!!!!

John 7:24 Stop judging by mere appearances, and make a right judgment."

Leviticus 19:15 Do not pervert justice; do not show partiality to the poor or favoritism to the great, but judge your neighbor fairly.

Proverbs 31:9 Speak up and judge fairly; defend the rights of the poor and needy."

1 Cor.5:12-13 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

1 Cor.6:2-3 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

Diogenes the Cynic

The answer to the OP is that there is no scriptural support for her interpretation whatsoever. Jesus made no qualifications at all with that statement and never said shit about "Christians" in any case. Jesus (if he existed) pretty much thought of himself as a Jew talking to Jews.

Julian

Actually, the term christians is never used in the gospels so that kinda destroys your mother-in-law's contention right there. The term 'christians' is not used until Acts which is probably a rather late document.

Julian

Steven Carr

As always, Paul can be counted on to spin the words of Jesus in a different direction.

1 Cor. 5:12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?

1 Cor. 6
2 Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? 3 Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life!

So much for Christians not judging each other.

Shameless Hussy

Thanks for the replies, guys.

RE: God tells us to judge (in Corinthians, Proverbs, John, etc.)
I think my m-i-l applies the same interpretation - that it's all about judging the "unsaved" and the "heathens" and the "wantons". Christians would be the saints referred to in Corinthians. The saints aren't judging each other, they're judging the world around them. I think.
This touches on the next part of the phrase, which is lest ye be judged. If Christians will be judged by the same standards they have applied to others, then perhaps Christians like my m-i-l think they have nothing to fear. After all, they're only judging the unsaved damned-to-hell people. God won't care about those, right?

RE: Christians not mentioned in the bible
Jesus was speaking of and to those who would follow his teachings - we call that Christianity. The fact that the term had not yet been coined doesn't change what and who He meant, though it's arguable that present-day Christianity bears little resemblance to what Jesus was talking about. It should be called Paulianity, if anything.

RE: the difficulty of applying this "judge not" thing in everyday life
Toto asked if this means we shouldn't condemn any outrightly evil acts; I think the Christian line on this is to say you judge the act but not the person; so an adulteress (to use one of Jesus' examples) would be judged for any legal transgressions, but the woman herself should not be condemned for doing something wrong by others who themselves do wrong...

Actually, this is the subject that raised the issue in the first place - my m-i-l was going on and on about how the ungodly liberals and gays and etc. are ruining family values left and right, and I pointed out to her that her own pastor had cheated on his wife with a church admin, which puts the lie to family values being upheld by her church - she immediately said "that's different, we're not supposed to judge other Christians" :huh:

Anyway, I hope a Baptist will come along and enlighten me on how this "judge not Christians but judge everyone else" idea is supported. My m-i-l's standard reply to any questions or challenges is to tell me to attend bible study and be born again. No thanks. I'm fine with just the one birthday.

Wallener

These were Jews preaching to Jews. If it's meant in that spirit, it means Jews get to judge Christians - not the other way 'round.

Wallener

Is there anything in the words currently attributed to Jesus himself that support the above?

Julian

As you can see above, 1 Cor 5:12 specifically say that those in the church can judge those in the chruch. Here is some more stuff from 1 Cor.

6:4
If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.
6:5
I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?

Actually, Paul seems to say that he will not judge those outside the church. That will be left to god. He is quite clear that in order to live up to certain standards, judgement is necessary within the church. You should read 1 Cor., it is short contains much on the topic. It completely contradicts your MIL.
Paul and the Jesus in the gospels are two entirely different things but, yes, my comment was not all that useful. Now I will make up for it.
You really need to read 1 Cor., here is some relevant stuff for your MIL:
5:9
I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:

5:10
Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.

5:11
But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
What does a baptist know about the bible? They only know what they like and then find the quotes to support their views. Bible study? No, quote mining, cherry picking and tendentious interpretation.

Julian

Toto

Would it be too judgmental to label this pure hypocricy?