fromdownunder

Patriarch Verlch, you have responded to this:

Your response was:

Please explain what your response has to do with the lineages described in Matthew and Luke and how one of them is Mary's lineage and the other Josephs, because this is not what the Bible says.

Oh, BTW, I have very recent Jewish ancestry.

Norm

igfm_spanky

Well, I'm convinced now.

Javaman

For one allegience: I appreciate your efforts to harmonize the contradictions in the ressurection account. You are correct in that many of them can be reconciled with each other if you try hard enough. Some reconciliations require inventing possibilities out of whole cloth while others are more mundane. Some, however, I can't figure out at all. Such as, "16. Did Peter go to the tomb before the others were told about it?" Is it a big deal? Not for me as I'm not superstitious but it goes toward casting doubt for those that think the bible was 'god breathed'. All-powerful deities should be better at maintaining their own books if they truly want to create believers, no?

Again, the contradictions still exist whether or not you can make them seem harmonious with extra effort. I don't mind discussing this more but this isn't the right place. By all means, if you think the bible doesn't contain contradictions, start a thread in BC&H. This thread is on a different subject and I apologize for my part in derailing it.

Alexander Pink

Man 6 pages and still no convincing extra biblical evidence for the existence of Jesus. I can't believe people actually believe the things that Patriarch Verlch and one allegiance do. I mean comeon anyone with more than 10 neurons can figure out that a global flood is an impossibility and that made up beliefs about magic beings are retarded. This world is so full of retarded ass people I don't even know why bother anymore. We can get on here and everyone can put 1000 arguments against the christian God and the xtians are too lacking in rational capacity to comprehend the most basic truths. It is literally insane that we have multiple arguments attacking every single claim of christianity, from argumenst against each attribute claimed of God, arguments showing he cannot have multiple of certain types of attributes, arguments from lack of evidence, arguments against the bible, arguments againt creationism, against atemporality, against transendental existence, ad infinitum arguments exponentially increasing to the point at which it is simply mind numbing how stupid you would have to be to believe in christianity and yet nothing makes an impact! Please one person come on here and make a good argument! By the end of page 7 can there please be a reasonable case made for contemporary extra biblical accounts of the existence of Jesus christ as a human being. This world is like a mad play in which all people believe the earth is flat, and all around them is obvious evidence that it is not, billboards showing the earth to be spherical, satellite images, gps systems, free space rides to travel around the earth, and spherical earthist ripe with 100 arguments of why the earth is in fact not flat and yet they go mad because everyone still says oh the earth is flat despite having access to the plethora of evidence that it is not. Man it would drive a man insane! Sorry for the rant I have become frustrated with this and recurring threads.

Hedshaker

You are just telling anecdotes, and woo hoo at that. Someone telling tales is not very compelling. If you can prove that there is anything supernatural you are eligible to collect $1000 000 from James Randi. But you will need to prove it. Just telling a story won't do.

There is no evidence for any such entity as Satan. Isn't it much more likely that, who ever made up the Jesus mythical stories, borrowed some of the content from stories about previous god-man myths?

You're on a sceptic board. It's no good giving it woo hoo. We want sound evidence or we don't buy it.

Javaman

I'll try to get back on track. Patriarch Verlch has evaded everything from the very beginning of this thread. His first sentence after the link in the very first post was:To which I replied (in two posts):DtheC responded more eloquently with essentially the same objections by pointing out:His very first reply to everything was post #25 which contained this:

"What is Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Are they not eyewitness accounts? Written by the men closest to Jesus."

There are two things wrong here. First, 4 != 11. I'm sure PV can count so how did he come up with that? Second, if he is for real and not an entertaining troll, he is sorely misinformed about his own religion to say nothing of his lack of scientific knowledge as evidenced by his weird off-topic diatribes. Even if PV is able to admit the gospels aren't eyewitness accounts and further to admit there aren't 11 accounts extant, we still have the problem of extra-biblical evidence... the whole point of this thread!

Please take a look at this thread that Toto was kind enough to find earlier:

The Early Evidence

This is a very comprehensive list of historians and other writers from the early days of christianity. We already know there are zero accounts of Jesus by the people that lived at the same time he supposedly did -- this list, however, is a list of people that could have written about him. They are weighted by how much we might have expected them to. PV has tried to push us off his own topic long enough. Rants against atoms turning to life are not going to blind us to his earlier assertions. Remember, Patriarch Verlch, even if evolutionary theory were shown to be false, it doesn't then automatically mean your particular mythology is any more true.

Hedshaker

I don't have to explain anything and would be the first to admit there are things I don't know. But science is making good progress into learning about our environment. Religion has shown us nothing but ignorance and phony stories :huh:

Which tells us what? Nothing. All you are doing is adding another layer of mystery to an already complex world. Where did this God (that you say didit) come from then?

But surly this God you keep harping on about is a far more complex an entity than anything we experience here in the real world? So you need to explain your Phantom Meta-physics on how God sprang to life. God alway existed is not an answer, it's a cop out.

If you're really intrerested to learn something I suggest you take your question to our Science & Scepticism forum and see what our scientists and experts have to say.

JustinFoldsFive

Obviously Patriarch was being sarcastic in this statement, but it is amusing how Christians always seems to go off the deep end when it comes to evidence and pretend like atheists are asking for a million and one individual pieces of evidence. In reality, all we are looking for is extra-biblical evidence for the existance of Jesus. All we have had so far is a discussion over the validity of the Bible, we touched on the "flood", and quickly ventured into Evolution/Creation. However, there have still been NO extra-biblical sources for the existance of Jesus. Patriarch, one allegiance...care to put up or shut up? Not to sound rude, but we are looking for one, and only one, thing...yet you keep dodging and evading the topic at hand. The diversions were fun, but it is now time for you both to provide your extra-biblical sources.

(Edit: Typo)

one allegiance

I can't for the life of me believe this. You people are ILLOGICALLY looking at the evidence just b/c it could show something that you don't like. Sauron even admitted he knew of the council of nicea, constantine both who happened to be NOT biblical. You people say you want extra biblical evidence yet you ignore everything that is posted. Niceen Creed, Constantine, Council of Nicea, B.C. A.D., Christians, the man who jews rejected, you have to look at these things with something we call LOGIC. The council of nicea wouldn't have happened if Jesus wasn't a person. B.C A.D? what about that. When you look at history, like Constantine and the Niceen Creed then you have to actually LOOK at it, b/c stuff like that happened. For the rest of you who keep denying this and making comments like "put up or shut up" (which by the way...is really mature guys.), have you even looked at what could have happened with all of these events. And yeah the Council of Nicea was 300 A.D...that means nothing. Are you saying we don't have records of people dating 300 yrs ago? And if we do we should discard them rb/c they are to far apart, right? If you look at all of this evidence WITHOUT presupposing things first, just for the sake of your ego, then you might LOGICALLY come up with the conclusion that I have been saying from the beginning. The title of the thread is what was so intriguing, b/c I had never heard of someone not admitting that he DID exist, it is quite uncommon. And I'm talking about the historical figure Jesus, not the one from the bible, b/c that is the real debate.

Look, if you guys look this stuff up, or look at the previous site's I posted (I think on page 5 or 6) and still don't budge on your position, then I'm done. It is a lost cause.

xaxxat

You've got to present better evidence than what you've done... Your dogma just doesn't work with us... :wave: