Malachi151

The crucifixion of Jesus during the passover festival is perhaps one of the most dramatic, symbolic, compelling, and absurd elements of the Jesus story.

Firstly, the trial of Jesus at this time would have been against the laws and certainly intuitions of the priesthood.

The story goes that Jesus was such a huge threat that they were forced to act at that very moment and couldn't wait another day.

They rush through the speedy "trial" and they put Jesus in with other criminals to be executed during Passover.

Not only are they now executing other people during this time, not just Jesus, but they potentially let Jesus off the hook. The crowd could have let Jesus go according to the story, so here the Sanhedrin went to these great lengths just to potentially do nothing at all.

Had the crowd let Jesus go, then he would have been free and would have gained even more credibility due to his persecution. All of their rule breaking would have been for nothing.

So, not only was Jesus being killed, but other minor criminals as well. Even if one were to argue that they just HAD to kill Jesus at that moment, what about the thieves? Why, also would they have potentially let him off the hook?

It all adds up to nothing more that fictional drama and symbolism and is beyond any possibility of being real.

EssEff

The Jews of the time were hypocrites so they were probably eating porkchops with cheesesauce cooked over a flame lit just after sunset on Friday. It's too bad Jebus wasn't burnt at the stake. They could have put their porkchops on skewers and saved themselves the sin of starting a fire.

Nazaroo

Anyone with any experience in Law Enforcement knows that timing is EVERYTHING when it comes to success during a critical 'bust'.

By definition, Jesus and His followers were NOT in control of the Judaean Authorities, else why arrest Him at all? Since He was a problematic 'loose cannon', they had to use an informant (Judas) to pinpoint His whereabouts at a critically vulnerable moment for arrest. They couldn't dilly-dally, or arrest Him at their leisure. That was one of the recorded problems they were having in the first place. He was difficult to arrest, without causing a riot.

In cases like this, you arrest ASAP, as soon as an opportunity arises.



Again, the crucial error of the 'omnipotence' and 'omniscience' of the Pharisees is assumed. The fact is, they had no way of knowing Pilate would release a prisoner, and his offering of a choice to the crowd was clearly a unique, 'one time only' occurance.

The Jewish authorities couldn't predict Pilate's behaviour any more than they could predict Jesus' ACCEPTANCE of being crucified.



Probably, but why assume anyone in this farce, this difficult situation of a rebellious people full of religious sects and secret societies, being occupied by a foreign army and ruled by appointed puppet-kings and fake priests would be in control of the situation?

You act as though everything in life is planned and controlled by benevolent dictators. Ask Saddam Hussein if his plans worked out as he intended.


The Romans were free to execute whomever was at hand in the dungeon and needed crucifying. Why assume the Jews had anything to do with a couple of other prisoners awaiting execution by the Romans?

Again, regarding Jesus being let "off the hook", repetition does not equal brilliance.

It adds up rather, to the most realistic fiction story we've seen in a while, if it is a fiction. The elements that most people have identified as likely to be 'fictional' (e.g. healing cripples, demonology) you have completely ignored, while the most realistic and likely historical elements you seem to think are 'fictional'.

Does everyone in Colorado think along these lines, and how much sun do you have down there?

Solo

They would not have had to use an informant, if a few of Jesus party had been taken during the disturbance at the Temple. One or two likely would have revealed where Jesus was camped without the need to pump the Treasury. Maybe the original tale had Judas breaking down after thirty lashes. (Thirty nine was the legal limit).

At any rate, Amos 2:6 & Zec 11:13 connection to Judas came likely to be manufactured later. The early fragmentary gospel of Peter seems to know nothing of the betrayal by one of the twelve.

Jiri

Malachi151

Umm... so are these three joke replies?

Nazaroo: Pure fantasy, with no evidence whatsoever to back anything up.

Solo: Total speculation that isn't even supported by scholarship. The Gospel of Peter looks for all the world to be a later writing that is an attempt to reconcile the Gospels.

Peter Kirby

Well, Malachi151, how would you counter your argument such that the conclusion is not a necessary one? Or, at least, what would you see as the serious objections?

Malachi151

Well first of all don't come with a claim like this:

When the Gospel says:

I don't know what objections would be valid, I can't think of any, which is the point. The crucifixion of prisoners on Passover isn't something that was done, and I think that you know that. The story is great drama, but not history.

Peter Kirby

It sounds as if you are saying it is certain that in Jerusalem a few criminals would not be crucified "during the passover festival." The prospect of such a timing of the crucifixions is absurd. Is that accurate?

Malachi151

Yes.

Roland

The fact that Jesus went up to Jerusalem, got himself arrested, tried and excecuted all in time for the Passover for which he himself became the ultimately symbol is WAY too contrived and heavy-handed to be factual.

If only one of the necessary elements had fallen through - as in real life, one or more undoubtedly would - the entire symbolic value of the tale would have been lost.

If that story doesn't have the smell of fiction attached to it, nothing does.