Johnny Skeptic

Message to arnoldo: No loving, rational God would inspire disputable prophecies when he could easily inspire indisputable prophecies. He would know that doing so would unnecessarily invite dissent of discourage dissent, thereby undermining his attempts to convince people to believe that he exists.

Huguenot

If you miss the meaning of Ezekiel's prophesies in Chapters 26, 27, and 28 from the start, then it's easy to twist and shape some quoted verses to suit an alleged outcome. (A City called "Tyre" is still standing or still exists!?)

In brief, Phoenician Tyre is no more. Their empire is no more; their trade is no more; their wealth is no more; their once-awesome "Queen of the Seas" navy is no more; their language is no more; their religion is no more; their culture is no more. In fact, to this very day, Tyre is a fishing port (sound familiar?).

The King is dead and the Kingdom of the Phoenicians is gone.

That applies to one race of people and one race of people only, the Phoenicians.

It doesn't matter if Greeks, or Romans or Ottoman Turks or Arabs lived there later and unless of course you know that the lay out their fish nets to dry on the bare rocks there! (grin)

Till and other Johnny come lately "skeptics" missed the meaning and purpose of the prophesy(ies) from the get go, becuase it feeds their Anti-Biblical dogma a priori.

Jack the Bodiless

Huguenot:

Two and a half thousand years have passed.

There is nothing remotely unusual about the changing fortunes of Tyre (or many other cities) over 2500 years!

But every single detail of the "Tyre prophecy" failed. Tyre withstood Nebuchadnezzar (who failed to achieve goals that Ezekiel SPECIFICALLY prophesied that he would achieve). And it never suffered the fate that Ezekiel prophesied, at the hands of Alexander or anyone else.

And the subsequent second failure, of Ezekiel's "Egypt prophecy" (intended to compensate Nebby for the failure at Tyre) is irrefutable. Apologists might like to shift Tyre onto the mainland, but they can't shift the entire country of Egypt!

Egypt under Amasis II enjoyed a period of success and prosperity at a time when it was supposed to be uninhabited for 40 years.

Ezekiel was a false prophet. This is abundantly clear.

Johnny Skeptic

But it easy to predict prophecies after the fact, or to resive them.

No loving, rational God would inspire disputable prophecies when he could easily inspire indisputable prophecies. He would know that doing so would unnecessarily invite dissent of discourage dissent, thereby undermining his attempts to convince people to believe that he exists.

Logically, if a God exists, and wanted to convince people to believe that he exists, he would either 1) publically and tangibly display his power in front of everyone in the world, or he would 2) exclusively use spiritual/emotional evidence, which millions of liberal theists believe is the case. No rational God would ever use limited tangible, firsthand evidence since he would know that that would invite dissent instead of discourage dissent. He would know that if one only begotten Son of God and 500 eyewitnesses was convincing evidence, 1,000 only begotten Sons of God and 500,000 eyewitnesses all over the civilized world would be much more convincing evidence. False religions by necessity must start in one place. A true religion could, and would start in may places all over the world. There would be no possible advantages for a God or for anyone else for him to start a religion in only one place. Doing that would serve only to needlessly invite dissent instead of discourage dissent, and would limit the number of people who would accept him.

Sheshonq

Yes, there is. You might want to search the threads here before jumping into this discussion.

Tyre did not fall at the hands of Nebuchadnezzar. Since that was the prophecy, it doesn't matter if Tyre exists now (it does), or if it was destroyed by space aliens from Galaxy 9 (it wasn't).

The prophecy is specific as to the agent of destruction: Nebuchadnezzar and the armies of Babylon. Any later destruction does not fulfill a specific prophecy.


In point of fact, Tyre today is a city of over 100,000 people with all the problems of a modern metropolis - traffic jams, pollution, etc. Maybe you should update your fundie news sources.

The same thing is true of David and Judah. So?

Uh, wrong.

1. The Phoenicians are still here. Google the National Geographic genealogy project.

2. Even if they weren't, they certainly would not be the only group of people who vanished from history.

Nobody missed any meanings. The prophecy failed, that's all.

Darklighter

I would say it does. As Ezekiel specificly said that 'Tyre' would never again be inhabited. But thats nit picking. But as you pointed out: No matter how you slice it... it's a failure.

gregor

I trust this is what you meant to write.

sugarhitman

I will repeat this once more The only part of Tyre that was to be destroyed by the nations was Old Tyre. Old Tyre is a bare rock today. The island will be destroyed. Isasiah mentions a great earthquake in the Day of the Lord when all 'the islands vanished.' Eze 27 mentions also that the island will fall in the sea. See my comment on this on page 8

Sheshonq

Repeat your mistakes as often as you like.

They're still mistakes, as we've proven several times. :rolling:

Darklighter

Yes. You've thoroughly explained your fanciful explanation, But unfortunately it's not backed up by the actual WORDS of the prophecy. You get an 'A' for effort though.