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Old 02-07-2006, 06:28 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WILLOWTREE
The silence of Egyptian records supports the Exodus
because Near East nations do not record defeats.
Oh, they don't, do they? Well, let's see what the Amarna letters have to say about that:

Quote:
However, the war of the 'Apiru against me is severe. (Our) sons (and) daughters are gone, (as well as) the furnishings of the houses, because they have been sold in Yarimuta to keep us alive. My field is "a wife without a husband," lacking in cultivation. I have repeatedly written to the palace regarding the distress afflicting me, . . but no one has paid attention to the words that keep arriving. Let the king heed the words of his servant........... They . . . all the lands of the king, my lord. Aduna, the king of Irqata, mercenaries have killed, and there is no one who has said anything to Abdi-Ashirta, although you knew about it. Miya, the ruler of Arashni, has taken Ardata; and behold now the people of Ammiya have killed their lord; so I am frightened.
--http://nefertiti.iwebland.com/a-rib-addi.htm

Quote:
Oh king, my Lord, there are no garrison troops here! (Therefore), the king takes care of his land! May the king take care of his land! All the territories of the king have rebelled; Ilimilku caused the loss of all the territories of the king. May the king take care of his land!
I repeat: Allow me to enter the presence of the king, my Lord, and let me look into both eyes of the king, my Lord. But the hostility against me is strong, and I cannot enter the presence of the king, my Lord. May the king send garrison troops, in order that I may enter and look into the eyes of the king, my Lord. So certain as the king, my Lord, lives, when the commissioners come, I will say: "Lost are the territories of the king. Do you not hear to me? All the rulers are lost; the king, my Lord, does not have a single ruler left."
May the king direct his attention to the archers, and may the king, my Lord, send troops of archers, the king has no more lands. The Hapiru sack the territories of the king. If there are archers (here) this year, all the territories of the king will remain (intact); but if there are no archers, the territories of the king, my Lord, will be lost!
--http://nefertiti.iwebland.com/a-abdu-heba1.htm

Now then, Ray, do you have an actual argument to make, or are you just going to go on insisting that the way we know the Exodus happened is that there is absolutely no evidence for it?
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Old 02-07-2006, 06:35 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WILLOWTREE
The Bible claims to be the word of God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by River
The Qur'an also claims to be the Word of G-d.
Well, at least we all agree on something.
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Old 02-07-2006, 09:33 PM   #43
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From the Deeds of Suppiluliuma (Hittite, 14th c. BCE):
When my father arrived in the land, (he found that) the Kaska enemy who had entered the land of Hatti had badly damaged the land. The Kaska enemy whom my father met inside the land consisted of twelve tribal groups...
From the Apology of Hattusili III (Hittite, c. 1240 BCE):
Thereupon, however, all the Kaska lands Pishuru (and) Daistipassa revolted. The land of Ishupi[tta] Marista and the fortresses they destr[oye]d. The enemy crossed the Marassanda river and began to raid the land of Kanes, began to raid the cit[y of...]. The cities of Ha[...] Kurustama and Gazziura turned hostile on the spot. They began to raid the cities of Hatti, while the enemy of the land of Durmitta began to raid [T]uhuppiya... Further, during the years that my brother Muwatalli was in Hatti, all Kaska lands became hostile and they destroyed the lands of Saddupa and Dankuwa... What (of) Hattusa he held, that I took away and resettled it all..
From the Lament for Tammuz (neo-Babylonian; presumably a very late version of an early original):
The daughter of Nippur wept: "It is for the Gutians to finish the task!" Her cheeks were sore (from weeping), she was deprived of her husband in whom she delighted. The goddess of Der (wept): "It is for the Gutians to finish the task!" She whose city was toppled, whose family was broken and violated, (wept): "(Oh women,) weep on account of Uruk, my headband caught in a thornbush..."
From the Lamentation over the Destruction of Sumer and Ur (Sumerian, c. 2000 BCE):
Truly, I myself uttered supplication before Enlil: "May the city not be destroyed!" I said indeed to them, "May an end not be put to its people!" I said indeed to them. But An never changed that word, Enlil never soothed my heart... Verily they gave instructions that my city be utterly destroyed. Verily they gave insructions that Ur be utterly destroyed. Verily they decreed its destiny that its people be killed... On that day, the storm (i.e. the joint attack of the Elamites and Amorites) was removed from the city, and that city was in ruins... Its people like potsherds littered its sides. In its walls breaches were made...
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Old 02-08-2006, 03:12 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebonmuse
Oh, they don't, do they? Well, let's see what the Amarna letters have to say about that:


--http://nefertiti.iwebland.com/a-rib-addi.htm


--http://nefertiti.iwebland.com/a-abdu-heba1.htm

Now then, Ray, do you have an actual argument to make, or are you just going to go on insisting that the way we know the Exodus happened is that there is absolutely no evidence for it?
Amarna correspondence is private. It was not created to preserve victories or defeats.

My point is very much intact: Only Israel recorded defeats.

The comment "Where is the Exodus in Egyptian records ?" remains an intentional straw man set by Egyptology to grind a personal worldview axe.

Where does any Near East nation record defeats ?

Besides a scattered handful (none made exclusively for the commemoration of a defeat) there are none.

Therefore we have no reason to expect the greatest defeat of all time in Egyptian records. Why would they record something everyone wanted to get past ?

Ray
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Old 02-08-2006, 03:16 PM   #45
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Ray, are you blind? I quoted from extensive Babylonian and Sumerian laments just above. Does God tell you to ignore the plain facts?
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Old 02-08-2006, 03:26 PM   #46
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Quote:
The Islamic version of the Exodus might help piece together the "missing link" between the Biblical account and what is generally considered acceptable by modern archaeology.

-River
Archaeology fully supports the Exodus 1453 BC.

Here is a beginners link to other Biblical claims corroborated by archaeology.

http://www.bible-history.com/assyria...scoveries.html

Ray
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Old 02-08-2006, 05:32 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WILLOWTREE
Archaeology fully supports the Exodus 1453 BC.
Really, FULLY supports!

Let's see.
Three million slaves escaped.
The day before they escaped they ate meat,
... in an agrarian society,
... three million slaves ate meat on the same day,
... rich slaves!

How does archaeology support this?
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Old 02-08-2006, 05:49 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WILLOWTREE
Archaeology fully supports the Exodus 1453 BC.

Here is a beginners link to other Biblical claims corroborated by archaeology.

http://www.bible-history.com/assyria...scoveries.html

Ray
how about a link to how archeology supports exodus -which is after all what we are talking about. How about a link which is from an unbiased souce i.e. a non-bible website. If the evidence really supported it then you wouldn't need to just link christian websites. secular websites would support it also. (you can believe the general story of aexodus without being a christian (apart from the outrageous miracles))
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Old 02-08-2006, 07:29 PM   #49
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Quote:
This page gives a really nice summary of the Pharoahs, Moses and the

Exodus from an Islamic perspective.

http://www.harunyahya.com/pernat16.php

However, I personally believe that the real Mt. Sinai is located

in Saudi Arabia...and this has contributed to the lack of evidence regarding

the exodus. The Bible states" Sinai of arabia" and the archaeologists Wyatt

and Humphrey have also led independent excavations into Saudi Arabia. An interesting lead

is Prophet Muhammad's statement to his Son in law , Ali. He said " I am to

you as Moses is to Aaron *, except that I am the last of the Prophets". If you

study the Prophet's life there are interesting parallels with Moses. For

example the Islamic calender is based on Muhammad's personal Exodus

to Yathrib. And if Muhammad (pbuh) is truly a Prophet like unto Moses...

perhaps Moses also stepped into Arabian terrain.


* the Islamic concept of Aaron is different than the Bible. And the Qur'anic

Haman is also different from the biblical perspective. In the Qur'an, the wife of the

Pharoah ( Asiya) risked her life to save Prophet Moses (pbuh) ..but was ultimately

crushed under boulders...

-River
Why should we believe the Quran when it comes to Egypt since it makes the laughably anachronistic claim that the Egyptian pharoahs used Crucifixtion as an execution device?

Quote:
7:124 [Prahoah said] Surely I shall have your hands and feet cut off upon alternate sides. Then I shall crucify you every one.
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Old 02-08-2006, 08:38 PM   #50
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Willowtree, that has absolutely nothing to do with the exodus. lol.
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