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Old 11-29-2010, 08:15 PM   #1
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Default Clear Physical Evidence that Christianity Predated Nicaea (Part Three) Abercius



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About the middle of the century in question, Abercius left his episcopal city and visited Rome. On his way home he travelled through Syria and Mesopotamia, and was received with great honours in various places. He died shortly after his return to Hieropolis, but not before he had composed his own epitaph, conveying a most vivid impression of all he had admired during his stay in Rome. This epitaph may well have inspired the Life of Abercius such as it has come down to us, since all its details may be explained by the hints contained in the inscription, or else belong to the common foundation of all legends of saints.

The Life, as a matter of fact, includes a transcription of the epitaph. Tillemont was greatly struck by the ideas therein expressed, and Pitra endeavoured to prove its authenticity and its important bearing on Christian symbolism. Renan regarded both the Life and inscription as fanciful compositions, but in 1882 the English traveller William Ramsay discovered at Kelendres, near Synnada, in the Roman province of Phrygia Salutaris (in Asia Minor, modern Anatolia), a Christian stele (inscribed slab) bearing the date of the year 300 of the Phrygian era (A.D. 216). The inscription in question recalled the memory of a certain Alexander, son of Anthony. De Rossi and Duchesne at once recognized in it phrases similar to those in the epitaph of Abercius. On comparison it was found that the inscription in memory of Alexander corresponded, almost word for word, with the first and last verses of the epitaph of the Bishop of Hieropolis; all the middle part was missing. Mr. Ramsay, on a second visit to the site of Hieropolis, in 1883, discovered two new fragments covered with inscriptions, built into the masonry of the public baths. These fragments, which are now in the Vatican Christian Museum, filled out the middle part of the stele inscribed with the epitaph of Abercius

It now became possible, with the help of the text preserved in the Life, to restore the original text of the epitaph with practical certainty. Certain lacunae, letters effaced or cut off by breaks in the stone, have been the subject of profound discussions, resulting in a text which may henceforth be looked on as settled, which it may be useful to give here.

The capital letters at the beginning and end of the inscription represent the parts found on the inscription of Alexander, the son of Anthony, those of the middle part are the remaining fragments of the epitaph of Abercius, while the small letters give the reading according to the manuscripts of the Life:

The citizen of a chosen city, this [monument] I made [while] living, that there I might have in time a resting-place of my body, I being by name Abercius, the disciple of a holy shepherd who feeds flocks of sheep [both] on mountains and on plains, who has great eyes that see everywhere. For this [shepherd] taught me [that the] book [of life] is worthy of belief. And to Rome he sent me to contemplate majesty, and to see a queen golden-robed and golden-sandalled; there also I saw a people bearing a shining mark. And I saw the land of Syria and all [its] cities; Nisibis [I saw] when I passed over Euphrates. But everywhere I had brethren. I had Paul ... Faith everywhere led me forward, and everywhere provided as my food a fish of exceeding great size, and perfect, which a holy virgin drew with her hands from a fountain and this it [faith] ever gives to its friends to eat, it having wine of great virtue, and giving it mingled with bread. These things I, Abercius, having been a witness [of them] told to be written here. Verily I was passing through my seventy-second year. He that discerneth these things, every fellow-believer [namely], let him pray for Abercius. And no one shall put another grave over my grave; but if he do, then shall he pay to the treasury of [the] Romans two thousand pieces of gold and to my good native city of Hieropolis one thousand pieces of gold.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inscription_of_Abercius
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Old 11-29-2010, 08:57 PM   #2
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Inscription of Abercius

There are a number of alternative interpretations here.

Firstly it must be noted that the inscription speaks of "The Shepherd" not "The Christian".

That this allegorical text refers to anything christian is only by way of assumption. For example, there have been a number of different interpretations of Abercius.
* In 1894 G. Ficker, supported by O. Hirschfeld, strove to prove that Abercius was a priest of Cybele.
* In 1895 A. Harnack offered an explanation based upon religious syncretism.
* in 1896, Dieterich made Abercius a priest of Attis.
It is considered moreover that "The Shepherd" referred to above at the time in history around 216 CE, has a greater likelihood of being associated with the "The Shepherd" and the "Teacher" referred to in the Nag Hammadi manuscripts. The figure of Thrice-great Hermes mentioned on a number of Nag Hammadi texts has often been associated with Apollonius of Tyana.

For example, refer to a separate article entitled Hermes Trismegistus & Apollonius of Tyana in the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Keben Brown, 1997. Additionally, the abbreviated form of Apollonius is Pol and the greek name Apollonius is written in the Codex Bezae.


As such, the inscription of Abercius is refuted to be unambiguously associated with early christianity.
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Old 11-29-2010, 09:04 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by stephan huller View Post
The citizen of a chosen city, this [monument] I made [while] living, that there I might have in time a resting-place of my body, I being by name Abercius, the disciple of a holy shepherd who feeds flocks of sheep [both] on mountains and on plains, who has great eyes that see everywhere. For this [shepherd] taught me [that the] book [of life] is worthy of belief. And to Rome he sent me to contemplate majesty, and to see a queen golden-robed and golden-sandalled; there also I saw a people bearing a shining mark. And I saw the land of Syria and all [its] cities; Nisibis [I saw] when I passed over Euphrates. But everywhere I had brethren. I had Paul ... Faith everywhere led me forward, and everywhere provided as my food a fish of exceeding great size, and perfect, which a holy virgin drew with her hands from a fountain and this it [faith] ever gives to its friends to eat, it having wine of great virtue, and giving it mingled with bread. These things I, Abercius, having been a witness [of them] told to be written here. Verily I was passing through my seventy-second year. He that discerneth these things, every fellow-believer [namely], let him pray for Abercius. And no one shall put another grave over my grave; but if he do, then shall he pay to the treasury of [the] Romans two thousand pieces of gold and to my good native city of Hieropolis one thousand pieces of gold.
To me, this seems to predate ideas found in the gospels rather than being derived from them. The reason I say this, is that the fish symbolism is central here, where it seems to be downplayed in the gospels - and we can see the direct connection from astrotheology to the Eucharist.

It's more stretched to say that a giant fish drawn by a virgin from a fountain is derived from Jesus and his mother, than to posit the reverse. Here we can see the clear astrotheology of Pisces and Virgo in plain sight, where they seem barely discernable in the gospels.
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Old 11-29-2010, 09:14 PM   #4
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Default Inscription of Pectorius

See also Inscription of Pectorius

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[Introduction from elsewhere ...]

The inscription of Pectorius is reckoned among the finest eucharistic discoveries of early Christianity. In 1839 seven fragments of a marble gravestone bearing the inscription of Pectorius were found in an old cemetery in the vicinity of Autun, in Southern France. The celebrated Catholic liturgical scholar Dom J. P. Pitra, later Cardinal, was the first to have studied this epitaph and published it in 1852;[11] in time a great number of other scholars made diligent researches into its date, language and contents.

...[trimmed]...

The Greek text of the inscription has a prominent feature which is entirely lost in an English translation, namely, the first letter' of the words introducing each of the first five verses from the word 'ICHTHUS': and thus bind the verses together. This word not only opens the first verse, but also appears in the text of the sixth, seventh and eleventh verse. We may well assume that such an order and symbolism were not accidental; they conveyed to the mind of the Christians a message guarded in terms they well understood.

The date of the Inscription of Pectorius is less certain than that of Abercius.
Cardinal Pitra and John B. De Rossi date it to the beginning of the second century; others, not later than the fourth.

The text of the inscription freely translated reads as follows:


1 Thou, the divine child of the heavenly Fish

2 Keep pure thy heart among the mortals

3 Once thou hast been washed in the fountain of divine waters.
Refresh thy soul, friend,

4 With the ever flowing waters of wealth-giving wisdom.

5 Take from the Redeemer of saints the honey-sweet food;

6 Eat with joy and desire, holding the Fish in thy hands.

7 I pray thee, Lord Savior, satisfy his hunger with the Fish.

8 May my mother rest peacefully, I beseech thee, Light of the dead.

9 Aschandius, father, my heart's beloved

10 With my dearest mother and my brothers

11 In the peace of the Fish remember thy Pectorius.

Again, further alternative interpretations are naturally feasible
There is nothing unambiguously "christian" with these verses.
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Old 11-29-2010, 09:38 PM   #5
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So your saying it's definitely not Christian?
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Old 11-29-2010, 09:54 PM   #6
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mountainman is arguing that it is plausibly not Christian, rather than definitely not. I agree with him on that point.

How is this odd Pisces/Virgo fish bread wine stuff related to Christianity? The symbols are familiar, as is the name Paul, but the message is difficult to reconcile with the gospels for the time period. But he's right that many religions of the time were using this same symbolism. Christianity didn't invent this stuff, it simply innovated the milieu, right?
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Old 11-29-2010, 10:06 PM   #7
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The claim is that there is nothing unambiguously "christian" with these citations of evidence. Why? Because other alternative explanations do exist.

Since you yourself somewhere provided a definition of "delusion", I'd like to mention an example .... that were someone to treat and pronounce and to authoritatively declare a "pious belief" that these citations of evidence are exemplars of things which are unambiguously "christian", then this might represent a sign of delusion on the part of the "believer".
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Old 11-29-2010, 10:29 PM   #8
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The evidence is being presented as part of a series because it is all connected. The fish imagery is inevitably used to provide an ante-Nicaean date. The next in the series is the Inscription of Pectorius - http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/16066b.htm

To show my unconventionality I do not think that the fish imagery derives from Peter and the disciples being fishermen. I think it is rather a symbol of the messianic Jubilee (nun = 'fish' = 50). But that is only my attempt to distinguish my motives from conservatives who would use this same evidence as proof for the antiquity of the Catholic tradition.
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Old 11-29-2010, 11:28 PM   #9
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I am absolutely certain that this one piece of evidence completely demolishes the idiotic notion that Christianity was invented in the fourth century. Abercius was certainly a Christian because we know of him through the great and reliable Eusebius of Caesarea. This is why people who aren't familiar with the literary evidence shouldn't be asked to evaluate the physical evidence. From Tabbernee's Polluted Sacraments:

Quote:
It takes but little imagination to identify 'St Abercius' of the vita as the Avircius Marcellus to whom the Anonymous sent a copy of his anti-Montanist treatise (ap. Eusebius Church History 5.16.3 - Tabernee provides a list of big guns to support his claims in the footnote). Abercius, from now on referred to as Avircius, was seventy-two years old when he commissioned the epitaph (lines 28 - 30). The tombstone must have been set up by some time before 216 (when the text was utilized for Alexander's epitaph). Therefore, Avircius would, minimally, have been in his early fifties when he received the Anonymous' treatise around 193.

Ramsay saw in Avircius “the chief figure in the resistance to Montanism in the latter part of the second century," but this description is overly enthusiastic. There is no doubt that Avircius opposed the New Prophecy. Avircius' urging the Anonymous for a long time to write against the movement demonstrates opposition but also shows that he lacked confidence regarding his own ability to refute the adherents of the sect adequately."
(p. 11)

The point is that the evidence is rock solid. In fact, it ultimately ends up vindicating Eusebius as a source. There was indeed a figure named Abercius who was well known enough to have been mentioned in the Church History. The inscription makes it absolutely certain that Eusebius is providing us with historical information when he writes:

Quote:
Chapter XVI. The Circumstances Related of Montanus and His False Prophets.

Against the so-called Phrygian heresy, the power which always contends for the truth raised up a strong and invincible weapon, Apolinarius of Hierapolis, whom we have mentioned before, and with him many other men of ability, by whom abundant material for our history has been left.

A certain one of these, in the beginning of his work against them, first intimates that he had contended with them in oral controversies. He commences his work in this manner:

"Having for a very long and sufficient time, O beloved Avircius Marcellus, been urged by you to write a treatise against the heresy of those who are called after Miltiades, I have hesitated till the present time, not through lack of ability to refute the falsehood or bear testimony for the truth, but from fear and apprehension that I might seem to some to be making additions to the doctrines or precepts of the Gospel of the New Testament, which it is impossible for one who has chosen to live according to the Gospel, either to increase or to diminish.

But being recently in Ancyra in Galatia, I found the church there greatly agitated by this novelty, not prophecy, as they call it, but rather false prophecy, as will be shown. Therefore, to the best of our ability, with the Lord's help, we disputed in the church many days concerning these and other matters separately brought forward by them, so that the church rejoiced and was strengthened in the truth, and those of the opposite side were for the time confounded, and the adversaries were grieved.

The presbyters in the place, our fellow-presbyter Zoticus of Otrous also being present, requested us to leave a record of what had been said against the opposers of the truth. We did not do this, but we promised to write it out as soon as the Lord permitted us, and to send it to them speedily."

Having said this with other things, in the beginning of his work, he proceeds to state the cause of the above-mentioned heresy as follows:

"Their opposition and their recent heresy which has separated them from the Church arose on the following account.

There is said to be a certain village called Ardabau in that part of Mysia, which borders upon Phrygia. There first, they say, when Gratus was proconsul of Asia, a recent convert, Montanus by name, through his unquenchable desire for leadership, gave the adversary opportunity against him. And he became beside himself, and being suddenly in a sort of frenzy and ecstasy, he raved, and began to babble and utter strange things, prophesying in a manner contrary to the constant custom of the Church handed down by tradition from the beginning ...
I don't need to quote too much from Eusebius other than to say that the material demonstrates absolutely certainly that this is the same Abercius. The reference to "our fellow-presbyter Zoticus of Otrous" is critical because Otrous (or Otrys, as it is sometimes written) was a small Phrygian town about two miles from Hieropolis. Abericius to whom the work was addressed, was from Hieropolis (see note 6), and that the anonymous companion Zoticus was from Otrous, would lead us to look in that neighborhood for the home of our author, though hardly to either of those towns (the mention of the name of the town in connection with Zoticus' name would seem to shut out the latter, and the opening sentences of the treatise would seem to exclude the former). The bishop of Hieropolis was present at the Council of Chalcedon, and also at the second Council of Nicaea, the geography mentioned in the letter reflects Abercius as presiding over a region in Phrygia (notice the topography). It is a dead match and has been established by Zahn and so many others the connection is iron clad.

This inscription with the literary evidence provided by the great and reliable Eusebius of Caesarea once and for demolishes the idiotic claim that Christianity was invented by a fourth century conspiracy.
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Old 11-30-2010, 08:26 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by stephan huller
The point is that the evidence is rock solid.
...
This inscription with the literary evidence provided by the great and reliable Eusebius of Caesarea...
Reminds me of cold fusion
hahaha.
what nonsense.

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