Freethought & Rationalism Archive

aa5874 · 02-23-2008, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

I can't copy and paste from google books, but Maccoby is just quoting Epiphanius. This is from another web site paraphrasing Maccoby:

Quote:

Epiphaneus tells us that the Ebionites further said of Paul:
"'They declare that he was a Greek . .. He went up to Jerusalem, they say, and when he had spent some time there, he was seized with a passion to marry the daughter of the priest. For this reason he became a proselyte and was circumcised. Then, when he failed to get the girl, he flew into a rage and wrote against circumcision and against the sabbath and the Law' (Epiphanius, Panarion, 30.16.6-9).

But, this is strange. A Paul in Philippians claimed he was circumcised on the eigth day.

Philippians 3.5

Quote:

Circumcised on the eight day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of Hebrews, as touching the law a Pharisee.

Toto · 02-23-2008, 12:39 PM

So the author of Philippians might have been lying when be claimed to be Paul, or Paul might have lied about being kosher from birth, or the Ebionites might have lied when they slandered Paul as just a wannabe Pharisee.

Politics as usual.

aa5874 · 02-23-2008, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

So the author of Philippians might have been lying when be claimed to be Paul, or Paul might have lied about being kosher from birth, or the Ebionites might have lied when they slandered Paul as just a wannabe Pharisee.

Politics as usual.

But why are so-called Christians lying about or slandering each other? This is certainly not politics. This is about the integrity of Christianity as it relates to its main characters.

paarsurrey · 02-23-2008, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

I can't copy and paste from google books, but Maccoby is just quoting Epiphanius. This is from another web site paraphrasing Maccoby:

Quote:

Epiphaneus tells us that the Ebionites further said of Paul:
"'They declare that he was a Greek . .. He went up to Jerusalem, they say, and when he had spent some time there, he was seized with a passion to marry the daughter of the priest. For this reason he became a proselyte and was circumcised. Then, when he failed to get the girl, he flew into a rage and wrote against circumcision and against the sabbath and the Law' (Epiphanius, Panarion, 30.16.6-9).

Hi

Now, I get it. I am very grateful to your for helping me trace the passage with reference.

Thanks and regards

mountainman · 02-24-2008, 03:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

It appears that not only Jesus, but Moses (?!?) is claimed to be buried in Kashmir.

You can also add Apollonius of Tyana to that list.

angelo · 02-24-2008, 03:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

I can't copy and paste from google books, but Maccoby is just quoting Epiphanius. This is from another web site paraphrasing Maccoby:

Quote:

Epiphaneus tells us that the Ebionites further said of Paul:
"'They declare that he was a Greek . .. He went up to Jerusalem, they say, and when he had spent some time there, he was seized with a passion to marry the daughter of the priest. For this reason he became a proselyte and was circumcised. Then, when he failed to get the girl, he flew into a rage and wrote against circumcision and against the sabbath and the Law' (Epiphanius, Panarion, 30.16.6-9).

We have all at one time or another experienced such a scene. We meet a stunner, in looks and personality, and say to ourselves; ''I've got to have this woman, no matter what.'' What do most men feel like after a rejection from such a goddess? Some would forget about it and get on with their lives. Others, revenge. Paul I feel is in the latter category.

DCHindley · 02-24-2008, 06:02 PM

Whre exactly is it stated he *died* in Kashmir? He supposedly stayed there 13 years, but he is clearly depicted as returning to the West.

DCH

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

It appears that not only Jesus, but Moses (?!?) is claimed to be buried in Kashmir.

You can also add Apollonius of Tyana to that list.

mountainman · 02-24-2008, 07:45 PM

I dont think it is explicity stated anywhere. It concerns the legend associated with the ultimate end of Apollonius. SOme accounts I have read suggest he travelled back to India. I have never seen any citations for this, and I cannot even find the second hand accounts at this stage, but will post them when I next encounter one. Of course the recently unearthed inscription may suggest otherwise.

Best wishes,
]

Pete Brown

mountainman · 02-24-2008, 07:58 PM

Non-christian Gnostic Origins and "The Hymn of the Pearl" merged w Acts of Thomas was too old to post on.

An afterthought related to Apollonius ....

FWIW I have recently completed an explication of this text "The Hymn of the Pearl" aka "The Hymn of the Soul" aka "The Robe of Glory" as an ascetic allegory. By this I mean, something like an allegorical life of Buddha. An allegory of the process of the path of yoga and the ascetic practice of mind and body. Think of an ancient poetic and compressed version of Herman Hess' Sidhartha.

It appears to be set prior to 220CE while the Parthian civilisation was extant. I have made the suggestion (note: suggestion only) that a number of features of the text may indicate its author to have been Apollonius of Tyana, but this is just a conjecture (for which I have provided evidence from the text).

IMO understanding asceticism is important in understanding antiquity, since it was itself reverred as an authority from remote and ancient times.

Best wishes,

Pete Brown

Toto · 02-24-2008, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainman

...
IMO understanding asceticism is important in understanding antiquity, since it was itself reverred as an authority from remote and ancient times.
...

Asceticism was a practice, not an authority. This statement makes no sense.

02-24-2008, 07:58 PM	#49
mountainman Contributor Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Falls Creek, Oz. Posts: 11,192	The Hymn of the Pearl - and Apollonius Non-christian Gnostic Origins and "The Hymn of the Pearl" merged w Acts of Thomas was too old to post on. An afterthought related to Apollonius .... FWIW I have recently completed an explication of this text "The Hymn of the Pearl" aka "The Hymn of the Soul" aka "The Robe of Glory" as an ascetic allegory. By this I mean, something like an allegorical life of Buddha. An allegory of the process of the path of yoga and the ascetic practice of mind and body. Think of an ancient poetic and compressed version of Herman Hess' Sidhartha. It appears to be set prior to 220CE while the Parthian civilisation was extant. I have made the suggestion (note: suggestion only) that a number of features of the text may indicate its author to have been Apollonius of Tyana, but this is just a conjecture (for which I have provided evidence from the text). IMO understanding asceticism is important in understanding antiquity, since it was itself reverred as an authority from remote and ancient times. Best wishes, Pete Brown

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02-23-2008, 12:39 PM	#42
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	So the author of Philippians might have been lying when be claimed to be Paul, or Paul might have lied about being kosher from birth, or the Ebionites might have lied when they slandered Paul as just a wannabe Pharisee. Politics as usual.

02-24-2008, 07:45 PM	#48
mountainman Contributor Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Falls Creek, Oz. Posts: 11,192	I dont think it is explicity stated anywhere. It concerns the legend associated with the ultimate end of Apollonius. SOme accounts I have read suggest he travelled back to India. I have never seen any citations for this, and I cannot even find the second hand accounts at this stage, but will post them when I next encounter one. Of course the recently unearthed inscription may suggest otherwise. Best wishes, ] Pete Brown

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