Bathory

We already know now that the original Hebrews were the slaves (actually known as Apiru) that served before, during and after the reign of Pharaoh Akhenaten. Akhenaten instilled in them the first monotheistic religion, though his God was called Aten. The Apiru slaves that escaped and lived in squalid Palestine for many centuries afterward continued to worship Aten. Those of the Apiru (whom of course were originally of Arabic blood) that were brought to Babylon from Palestine by the Caucasian conqueror,Nebuchadnezzar, were confronted by a civilization that was in decline, in much the same way as America today is. That is, rampant race mixing was completely destroying what had been one of the greatest, most productive areas in history. Much the same had happened in Ancient Egypt and India. The Apiru were, by dint of being denied by the conquering Babylonians any fundamental right to decision making,found themselves mostly forced to co-mingle with the already master/slave co-mingled Babylonian bloodline. These same, now ethnically mixed people went back to Palestine (a land that in actuality was NEVER "THEIRS", Palestine is the home of the Palestinians;NOT the Apriu,whom they had invited to live there as their guests).
Many historians, including Spengler and Brown, have posited that the latter day conquering Persians let these folks leave Babylon because they had pretty much adopted Mazdaism (or at least the concept behing the established dogmas attached TO Mazda-ism) to their belief system. Upon their arrival at Palestine (compare the following to the Biblical Book of II Kings) they were confronted by the original Apiru, whom at the time referred to themselves as Samaritans. The Babylonian emigrants ( whom much later referring to themselves as "Jews") , out of indignant denial of their mixed race, warred against these original Apirus and (like most conquerors assimilated the Apiru's original, Aten religion with both the Mesopotamian Yahweh and Persian Zoroastrian dogma they had brought back with them from Babylon. What they discovered thenceforth was that Religion itself could unite even racially disparate peoples (including the originally Middle Eastern and proceeding,converted Southern Russian,Greek, and Roman Judaists, for instance). And, even MORE importantly, it seemed to be a tool that was effective toward inventing a the Jewish "race"s' history (see Nietzsche's "Anti-Christian",Spengler, Brown).
Jesus, if he indeed existed as an actual historical figure, was in many ways a reaction against the "false Jews" (see the book of Revelation). I am curious to see where this thread will lead the board as far a speculatory endeavors....if it goes anywhere at all (which,in itself, would be quite telling).

Celsus

British internet users have an appropriate acronym for this sort of thing: WALOB. Being generous, I'll ammend it to WALOAssertions

Joel

Bathory

:huh: Please excuse me for sounding ignorant, though it is very possible you feel that way about this post in general (Which amazes me, considering you have at least a FEW moderately intelligent posts), but do you mean "what alot of baloney?"
Excuse me while I re-read my post...I think you may have short attention span syndrome. If you can refute ANY of what was written, I DARE you, "dude". but I posit that you CAN'T, and you feel helpless, so you react with a puerile, flippant remark. Did you take this post in a knee jerk, offensive way?If you did, please open up to the board, it may be your hidden female reaching out for input from caring people..... :Cheeky:

Celsus

It means "what a load of bollocks".
Well I replied to your PM, but here's the relevant gist for people who are wondering. I'm sure this has come up before because I didn't even have to look up anything to respond.

If you are interested in backing up your assertions, sentence by sentence, we will see where this leads. The Hapiru/Hebrew link, for instance, is dead. That's an assertion. Now to back it up, we can draw on the identification made by the German scholar Hugo Winckler that Hapiru was equivalent to the Sumerian term SA.GAZ in a number of documents, particularly the Hattusas documents. This term is possibly cognate with the Akkadian saggasu, which means "murderers". Further scholars (the mainstream) had independently realised that the broad usage of the term Hapiru made a reading of its definition as a social class, rather than an ethnic group, a term akin to our "brigand", "thug" or "rogue". As the Danish scholar Niels Lemche pointed out, Winckler's identification was all that is needed to recognise that if correct, the entire ANE was crawling with Hebrews from Anatolia to Egypt to Mesopotamia. Unfortunately, it is hardly likely that an ethnic group of that period could ever be so widely spread out. Hence, the Hebrew/Hapiru link is dead, per my assertion above.

Do you see how it works now?

Joel

Vorkosigan

One the author of the Decline of the West, the other, the Might of the West, and both books engrossing literature, but bad history.

Ah, a white supremacist. This is definitely ~E~ stuff. Celsus, don't waste your valuable time.

Vorkosigan

Bathory

>>> :huh: Interesting how that last remark applies to 90% of the posts on this board. At least this topic isn't as outrageously puerile as most.
Get a grip,people. If you wish to "pick the above apart", then do so, and stop acting so indignant. nietzsche was right "NO one LIES like the indignant".>>

Celsus

There's no point picking anything apart, because it's all a load of assertions as I said (and haven't I put paid to your very first sentence, from which the rest of your argument falls apart?). Why don't you try to provide arguments, for instance, that "Akhenaten instilled in them the first monotheistic religion"?

Very simple:
1) Figure out who the Apiru were.
2) Figure out what the religion of the Apiru was before the reign of Akhenaten
3) Figure out what the religion of the Apiru was after the reign of Akhenaten
4) Demonstrate that Akhenaten had something to do with this change in religion
5) Claim your tenure at a prestigious university (Harvard, Sheffield, or Tel Aviv are good) having proven everyone wrong

Joel

Bathory

>>>>>>>>>>>Well, I guess I feel pretty DUMB . I really WAS relying too much on Spengler and Brown's works, along with Nietzsche and Hegel (AGAIN). Also, I only mentioned the entire "race mixing" thing because I read a work by Chamberlain from the early 20th century that DID have some interesting points, though on the whole I would be even DUMBER to think caucasians have cornered the market on world civilizations; just look at what an outstanding history the Arabian culture has brought forth over the past 3500 years.Please forgive if I appeared WAY too presumptuous, as well as over reliant on the above literary (NOT neccessarily historical) works. Again, no offense intended.>>