PhilosopherJay

Hi All,

When we translate a proper name of a person, we may leave the name in the foreign language we find it in or do a literal translation. For example the name of the 19th Century Native American leader is Tȟatȟáŋka Íyotake. It is commonly translated into English as "Sitting Bull."

When we look at the name "Jesus Christ," we see two words. Jesus is Joshua/Yeshua or "Yaweh saves." Yahweh is the name of the Jewish God, but God saves is probably the better translation, as the Jews regarded Yaweh as their God. Χριστός means "Anointed One." The anointed one is what the Jews called their King. Thus Χριστός is a term that means "king."

Therefore the translation into English of the name Jesus Christ should be "God Saves King" or perhaps more grammatically correct "God Saves the King."

It occurs to me that the best translation of the opening sentence in the Gospel of Mark, "Ἀρχὴ τοῦ εὐαγγελίου Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ, υἱοῦ τοῦ Θεοῦ," should be: The beginning of the Good News/birth of God Saves the King, the son of God.

I think this translation would more correctly bring out the fairy tale nature of the ensuing story.

Warmly,

Jay Raskin

sotto voce

It would not be a good translation. A more realistic one would be:

The beginning of the good news of God Liberates, the Anointed, the manifestation of God.

Had Mark needed to, he could have been more mundanely specific:

The beginning of the good news of God Liberates of Nazareth, the Anointed, the manifestation of God.

The word 'Anointed' is context dependent: millions of people were anointed for medical reasons, but were not specially designated for that reason! The word 'christ' does indeed mean 'anointed', but it does not mean just 'king' or 'ruler'. In Israel, some were anointed on the forehead as signifying a special leadership role in the nation, as it denoted appointment by God, and gave the anointed special honour and 'holiness' on that account. A prophet, in Israel as elsewhere, was one who spoke to a nation to warn or advise, and also to predict events. Sometimes prophets were anointed, but always the High Priest, who was appointed from the start. At first Israel was a democracy (very probably an exemplar for Greece), but, against prophetic advice, a monarchy was established. Kings were also anointed.

Now Israel as a political state cannot be taken as the final condition intended by Jehovah, or a necessary one, if the Bible has any meaning. For one thing, it ceased to exist over 1800 years ago. For another, it did not exist for hundreds of years, from Abraham until Sinai, though the promise and pre-figurement of a single future priest and king were never far from events in that period. So the significance of anointing must now have a non-political, non-ritual value, or none at all.

Now Jesus was undoubtedly an Israelite, and undoubtedly a prophet, as his teaching shows; though he was by no means the only prophet; so the partial association of anointing with prophet-hood may aptly contrast with the claim for Jesus that he was the only priest, the only king, or lord. The second of these claims is contingent on the first. Jesus is lord only if his priesthood, i.e. the oblation of himself for atonement' is accepted. So the word Christ applied not only because of kingship, but also because Jesus is regarded as saviour, or one who sets consciences free.

outhouse

except for one big problem you may have overlooked Jay.

yeshua was a common named used by many, as common as Mark today.

and its translation is all over the board

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeshua_(name)


The name Yehoshua has the form of a compound of "Yeho-" and "shua": Yeho- יְהוֹ is another form of יָהו Yahu, a theophoric element standing for the name of God יהוח (the Tetragrammaton YHWH, sometimes transcribed into English as Yahweh or Jehovah), and שׁוּעַ shua‘ is a noun meaning "a cry for help", "a saving cry",[11][12][13] that is to say, a shout given when in need of rescue. Together, the name would then literally mean, "God is a saving-cry," that is to say, shout to God when in need of help.

anethema

How bout that Lou Gherig getting that disease named after him. Oh wait a minute did that happen before or after. The coincedence begs the question chicken or the egg?

aeebee50

People will keep translating it anyway they want to.

Sheshbazzar

The theophonic Self Existent verb form plus the word for deliverance or 'help'.
That Name which is above every name that is named, which alone is Self Existent Deliverance.

'Say now; 'Shibboleth'.... or something a little bit different.

After all what difference could it make? 'Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, ....'

Translate it the way you want. Pronounce it the way you want. After all what difference could it possibly make? Your heart is known.

mountainman

Hi Philosopher Jay,

You could be right about the translation of the main figure in the comic fairy story.

I ran a scan in the back-office on the 4th century publisher and dug this up.

It may or may not be relevant.


Best wishes


Pete

mountainman

Jesus Potter Harry Christ: The Fascinating Parallels Between Two of the World's Most Popular Literary Characters (or via: amazon.co.uk)

aeebee50

This is an example of what I said. Parallels abound.

mountainman

the counter problem is that you wont find the name in earliest manuscripts of the greek new testament, only its nomina sacra form, and without any explicit translation. Its translation is not all over the board. Its translation is missing, hence Philosopher Jay's hypothesis.