Thomas II

But my point is that there was no actual person there to welcome that sacrifice!
Why not?
Because it was an imaginary god to begin with!
The only one who gave Jesus up were his mother, his family, his friends.
Nobody was god's only begotten son.
Nobody loves humanity more than the love we have for each other...

The Dagda

That makes sense, but then the belief relies on Jesus as a historical figure who was the son of God, if that is not true then of course everything they do is false and is making The FSM angry.

The irony in this statement when compared to organised religion is palpable, but yes I suppose so.

Thomas II

Jesus could have been an actual person, a flesh and blood person,but that's about it. He could have been real, but the FSM is certainly not real!
Meaning that whatever interaction we "create" with the FSM is not real but imaginary...

The Dagda

True but you are going to the freezer when you die until you don that pirate costume and accept FSM as the one true God, beer volcanoes and stripper factories await when you are ready of course.

All joking aside if you look at it from a human perspective it does actually make a lot of sense in the context of the faith. I'm not too sure about the physical transubstantiation but then that caused millions of deaths. Non noodle based religion Religion eh? It's so much easier with the Pastafarianism.

"They rolled away the pasta wheel and all they found was Cheesus stuck to the wall."

Collunder the I.

Simple.

Zenaphobe

If you look at his "atoning death" through Ezekiel 18 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...8;&version=31; the whole crucifixion thing seems a bit over the top.

These passages seems to clothes line the whole claim that Yahweh needed to have his son die before he is able to forgive people.

"Do what is right and live" isn't as emotional as the Passion story I'll admit, but it kind of gets the blood out of Yahweh's beard and teeth.

Thomas II

:rolling:

Well, that is an interesting issue in itself...
What happens when we die?
Do we have Jesus coming to greet us all love and light, or do we have huge plate of pasta fazul floating towards us? :huh:
Frankly I don't know. It depends on how hungry you are,I guess...
But I'm flexible. If I am proven wrong one day, I'll be the first one to say "Holy cow!"
Until then, pass me the parmesan, and let's play another of those videos...

judge

Not as far as we know from the gospels.
What we do know is that in the gospels Jesus appears in a culture where that was the official party line. Using what he has, Jesus communicates with those people.
I dont think one can conclude that Jesus therefore accepted yaweh-ism in any/the traditional/fundamentalist/literalist sense (if such could be isolated).

John 10

25Jesus answered, "I did tell you, but you do not believe. The miracles I do in my Father's name speak for me, 26but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. 30I and the Father are one."

31Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, 32but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?"

33"We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."

34Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are gods'? 35If he called them 'gods,' to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken— 36what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, 'I am God's Son'? 37Do not believe me unless I do what my Father does. 38But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father."

John 17

20"My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you

.


It is all a metaphysical teaching IMHO.

Thomas II

Jesus accepted Yahwehism because he performed a Pascal rite as prescribed in Exodus 12:3-13, 21-27 and 43-49.
It has to be performed exactly as prescribed or every firstborn would die...
Please read:
http://www.latin-mass-society.org/20...sacrifice.html

Look at the conditions...Everything had to be a certain way or else...Jesus does it according to the order of Melchisedech, that is with bread and wine, instead of the Aaronic way which was with an animal sacrifice.
Obviously Jesus perceives Yahweh as god.

judge

To me it does not necessarily follow that we can deduce that Jesus was a strict yaweh-ist from this though, or that he thought yaweh was god in some special way.

Yahwarrior23

How would Jesus know Yahweh when Jesus didnt exist...if you could go back and ask Peter, hey do you know where Jesus is? Do you really think he could point you in the right direction? I doubt considering Jesus is a man made invention. Its funny how your name is your name all the way across the board. There could be different ways its said or spelled but you dont have to change your name in every culture. As a matter of fact Osama bin Laden is Osama in Japan, England, Panama, Africa, & Canada LOL. Its all common sense. :constern01: