Roger Pearse

I'm not sure whether atheism can validly arise from intentional category confusion; but there doesn't seem to be any lack of people willing to try.

Solitary Man

Sons of Elohim and all that Jazz.

spamandham

Is this a suggested list item, or merely a rant?

PhilVaz

Malachi << Mary was ignored for the first 200 years, only rising in her importance as the religion was adopted by pagans who were worshipers of female gods, who then did in fact substitute Mary for the role of female gods in their traditions. >>

Wanted to comment on this. Explicit prayers and references to Mary are scarce in the first 200 years of the Church or so, but Mary herself was not ignored. Mary was called the "New Eve" (as Jesus was the "New Adam" in Romans 5) beginning with St. Justin Martyr (c. 150 AD) and virtually all the Fathers following him. These orthodox Catholic Fathers knew the difference between the pagan female gods, and the Virgin Mary (who was not a god, but the Mother of Jesus, and therefore the Mother of God or "God bearer", theotokos). She is also not ignored in the Gospels but appears in all the main scenes with Jesus her son: at his birth, at the temple when he was 12, throughout his 3-year ministry, at his death by crucifixion, at his Resurrection, at his Ascension in Acts 1.

There is an early prayer addressed to Mary (called the "Sub tuum praesidium") dated to 250 AD. This is before Emperor Constantine let all the pagans into the Church (c. 313 AD). The veneration and honor of Mary and the saints was established before this. It is true a more explicit Catholic Mariology began to be developed only after the fourth century, since the Church first had to know who Christ is (the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD which defined Christ as "one in substance" with the Father), before they could figure out who His mother is (the Council of Ephesus in 431 AD defines Mary as "theotokos").

For scholarly articles on the development of two Catholic doctrines of Mary, see my Immaculate Conception and Assumption articles. The best on the web for those. Sorry I forgot this isn't the Catholic Answers forums. :wave:

Phil P

Cesc

How about the symbolism of "light" or heavenly light:

Horus was a personification/deification of light, Jesus is a personification/deification of light (light here being the representative of reason/knowledge)?

The Johannine works are talking about light and logos and the Christians as being "the sons of light" etc.
What you think? Is that a parallel, common trait or nonsense? An Alexandrian influence on the Jesus story perhaps?

Amaleq13

Yes so "plenty" must have really meant "at least one".

Roger Pearse

Is this a suggested list item, or merely heckling?

GakuseiDon

I was hoping we could verify the parallels before deciding on whether the parallel has any significance towards borrowing or influence. At this stage, I'm happy with any parallel, as long as there are primary sources to back them up. Once we have a complete list that is established from primary sources, then we can go onto the next step.

spamandham

Heckling, but well earned heckling.

Toto

Please refrain from group libel, catcalls and heckling. Thanks