Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Randy X · 02-25-2004, 05:25 AM

Well, it appears that we didn't have to wait long for the next installment of the elaboration process. Go figure.Thanks for the link Christ, it made my day.

Better yet, come join in with me?

I would appreciate your assistance if at all possible.

Sincerely,

Christ

Gawen · 02-25-2004, 01:55 PM

This from a poster in Christ's debate:

"tHIS IS A VERY INTERESTING DISCUSSION.....and it looks to me like we are all going to get dizzy walking around in this circle.
WHY?
Because "evolution" cannot be proved.....evolution is a matter of faith which is based on a whole lot less observations to work with, than is faith in a creator.
Evolution is not and will not be the first scientific "fact" that will undeniably be proven false.
Taking some ancient fossils found and then making the leap that this is evolution, is comparible to seeing a drop of oil on the road and concluding that an accident had occured. How can a person make that claim? Is it feasible? Possibly. Is it likely? Not really! The valley too wide to make that leap.
Did you know that the most renowned archaeologists in the world insisted that Beltesazzar never existed, even though the bible said he did. It was only untill they unearthed an inscription with his name that they accepted his existence as accounted for in the scriptures.
The bible is the word of God....and it will always, always be proven to be superior to mans wisdom.....it is all a matter of time.
In one hand there is the wisdom of man.......in the other hand there is the wisdom of God......I prefer to put my bet on the side that will not fail. "

It is all a matter of time, folks....Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated...*shakin me head slowly*

I was going to say a few things Christ, but talking with people like that just gets me worked up....sorry...

Randy X · 02-27-2004, 12:16 PM

I was going to say a few things Christ, but talking with people like that just gets me worked up....sorry...

Oh well, I had to ask.

Its okay, I'll fend off these critters by myself. Dammit, its going to be difficult. But you know as they say, where there is a will, there is always a way.

Sincerely,

Christ

The Evil One · 02-28-2004, 06:34 AM

Ah well. Looks as if JTurtle isn't going to return to acknowledge that we have shown him several JUST ONE contradictions in the Bible.

Which is somethign of a shame.

Agnostic Theist · 03-01-2005, 09:04 AM

Did I do that pharoah quote? If so, I think you have taken it out of context.

My contention was not the existence of God, but that some things in the Bible may well have been historically true, atheologically.

For instance, some dude who prayed on people's theological habituations may have incited rebellion against the priests, or sought to bring state and church together in a move that would perhaps forever strengthen what he stood for.

And maybe a group of Hebrews did fuck off from Egypt, being saved from the pharoah's persuing army by a coincidental parting of the Red Sea.

The link doesn't work anymore, but if you can find it, you'll notice I avoided concluding anything theistic from that statement.

Although truth be told, I'm not sure if it was me or not...

Chris Weimer · 03-01-2005, 01:48 PM

Ah spin, did you see my post here? The Bible is so much more than just a book of "morals" or "beliefs" - my god, I have read nothing so beautiful as the Psalms. :angel:

Derec · 03-01-2005, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godless Wonder

People go on and sort of say the Bible is a great work of literature, and so on. You know, I don't see it. Sure it's been influential, but reading the Bible, I don't see the great literature in it yet. Maybe I'm not reading the right parts.

Think of the Bible as an anthology or sorts. Many different authors, many different genres and many different epochs. Clearly, the quality will vary throughout.

Jayhawker Soule · 03-02-2005, 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spin

xians are too busy believing the texts, atheists too busy disbelieving them for either group to stop and read them. The first are needing and defensive, the second are hateful and offended. You find post after post here at this forum full of self-righteous scorn, which on the one hand you can understand because of the impact of xianity today while on the other hand does not foster appreciative reading.

< --- snip --- >

When you remove the centuries of rubbish encrusting the creation stories in Genesis, forgetting your desires scientific accuracy, you find rich imagery and significance. The reader who refuses to read these things with care is indeed shallow and sophomoric.

:notworthy Excellent! :notworthy

Godless Wonder · 03-02-2005, 06:51 AM

Ah, I see, I'm sophmoric and shallow for not wishing to dig through centuries of encrusted rubbish to find "significance" and "rich imagery." Which, this encrusting of rubbish BTW is not in any way confined to Genesis in my opinion, the Pentateuch is full of various lists of offenses, laws, plunder, etc. that can hardly be considered literature, and things don't improve much when you get past those, in fact it appears not to be an encrusting of rubbish so much as the main component.)
I don't like digging through rubbish. I stand by my statement, it's not good literature in my opinion. It is not enjoyable for me to read, it is tedious and boring. I say the same thing about the first, say, 80-100 pages of Jules Verne's 20000 Leagues Under the Sea, though at least his tedium is an attempt to build up some suspense, a concept completely absent from the Bible, as far as I can tell.

This is all a matter of opinion, of course, and of course you are free to disagree, but if I don't like it, you can't tell me I'm wrong for not liking it and expect me to take it very seriously. If you enjoy reading the Bible, more power to you.

BTW, what's up with bumping a year old thread?

muTron the homeless · 03-02-2005, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godless Wonder

Ah, I see, I'm sophmoric and shallow for not wishing to dig through centuries of encrusted rubbish to find "significance" and "rich imagery."

I don't think spin and others meant to call you sophmoric in relation to your person. I think they have issue with your comparison of biblical literature to Mr. King and Ms. Roland. Certainly you are free to dislike the biblical texts, but you do violence to the ancient works by stating they are dull in the same way as Stephen King's It. Perhaps you dislike all ancient texts equally...that would at least be fair.

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02-25-2004, 05:25 AM	#41
Randy X Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: South Africa Posts: 258	Well, it appears that we didn't have to wait long for the next installment of the elaboration process. Go figure.Thanks for the link Christ, it made my day. Better yet, come join in with me? I would appreciate your assistance if at all possible. Sincerely, Christ

02-25-2004, 01:55 PM	#42
Gawen Contributor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Cylon Occupied Texas, but a Michigander @ heart Posts: 10,326	This from a poster in Christ's debate: "tHIS IS A VERY INTERESTING DISCUSSION.....and it looks to me like we are all going to get dizzy walking around in this circle. WHY? Because "evolution" cannot be proved.....evolution is a matter of faith which is based on a whole lot less observations to work with, than is faith in a creator. Evolution is not and will not be the first scientific "fact" that will undeniably be proven false. Taking some ancient fossils found and then making the leap that this is evolution, is comparible to seeing a drop of oil on the road and concluding that an accident had occured. How can a person make that claim? Is it feasible? Possibly. Is it likely? Not really! The valley too wide to make that leap. Did you know that the most renowned archaeologists in the world insisted that Beltesazzar never existed, even though the bible said he did. It was only untill they unearthed an inscription with his name that they accepted his existence as accounted for in the scriptures. The bible is the word of God....and it will always, always be proven to be superior to mans wisdom.....it is all a matter of time. In one hand there is the wisdom of man.......in the other hand there is the wisdom of God......I prefer to put my bet on the side that will not fail. " It is all a matter of time, folks....Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated...shakin me head slowly I was going to say a few things Christ, but talking with people like that just gets me worked up....sorry...

02-27-2004, 12:16 PM	#43
Randy X Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: South Africa Posts: 258	I was going to say a few things Christ, but talking with people like that just gets me worked up....sorry... Oh well, I had to ask. Its okay, I'll fend off these critters by myself. Dammit, its going to be difficult. But you know as they say, where there is a will, there is always a way. Sincerely, Christ

02-28-2004, 06:34 AM	#44
The Evil One Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: England Posts: 2,561	Ah well. Looks as if JTurtle isn't going to return to acknowledge that we have shown him several JUST ONE contradictions in the Bible. Which is somethign of a shame.

03-01-2005, 09:04 AM	#45
Agnostic Theist Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: UK Posts: 4,822	Did I do that pharoah quote? If so, I think you have taken it out of context. My contention was not the existence of God, but that some things in the Bible may well have been historically true, atheologically. For instance, some dude who prayed on people's theological habituations may have incited rebellion against the priests, or sought to bring state and church together in a move that would perhaps forever strengthen what he stood for. And maybe a group of Hebrews did fuck off from Egypt, being saved from the pharoah's persuing army by a coincidental parting of the Red Sea. The link doesn't work anymore, but if you can find it, you'll notice I avoided concluding anything theistic from that statement. Although truth be told, I'm not sure if it was me or not...

03-01-2005, 01:48 PM	#46
Chris Weimer Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: none Posts: 9,879	Ah spin, did you see my post here? The Bible is so much more than just a book of "morals" or "beliefs" - my god, I have read nothing so beautiful as the Psalms. :angel:

03-02-2005, 06:51 AM	#49
Godless Wonder Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,197	Ah, I see, I'm sophmoric and shallow for not wishing to dig through centuries of encrusted rubbish to find "significance" and "rich imagery." Which, this encrusting of rubbish BTW is not in any way confined to Genesis in my opinion, the Pentateuch is full of various lists of offenses, laws, plunder, etc. that can hardly be considered literature, and things don't improve much when you get past those, in fact it appears not to be an encrusting of rubbish so much as the main component.) I don't like digging through rubbish. I stand by my statement, it's not good literature in my opinion. It is not enjoyable for me to read, it is tedious and boring. I say the same thing about the first, say, 80-100 pages of Jules Verne's 20000 Leagues Under the Sea, though at least his tedium is an attempt to build up some suspense, a concept completely absent from the Bible, as far as I can tell. This is all a matter of opinion, of course, and of course you are free to disagree, but if I don't like it, you can't tell me I'm wrong for not liking it and expect me to take it very seriously. If you enjoy reading the Bible, more power to you. BTW, what's up with bumping a year old thread?

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