Freethought & Rationalism Archive

aa5874 · 07-17-2012, 08:19 AM

Bart Ehrman in his book "Did Jesus Exist?" page 179 made a most Revealing statement.

Quote:

Mythicists sometimes like to revel in the historical problems posed by the Gospels: we do not have the original texts of the Gospels, and there are places where we do not know what the authors originally said; the Gospels are not authored by the persons named in their titles (Matthew, Mark, Luke and John) but were were written by people who were not his followers living forty to sixty years later in different parts of the world; the Gospels are full of discrepancies and contradictions; and the Gospels report historical events that can be shown not to have happened.

Some scholars may disagree with some of these claims--conservative evangelicals will disagree with all of them--but I personally think they are absolutely right. And I think that these issues create genuine problems for the study of the New Testament, the history of the early Christian church and the life of the historical Jesus...

The MJ claims are ABSOLUTELY Right based on Ehrman.

Duke Leto · 07-17-2012, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

The MJ claims are ABSOLUTELY Right based on Ehrman.

I'm not at all sympathetic to Ehrman's Historicist position, but that's kinda quoting him out of context. Especially when you supply part of the context.

aa5874 · 07-17-2012, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duke Leto

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

The MJ claims are ABSOLUTELY Right based on Ehrman.

I'm not at all sympathetic to Ehrman's Historicist position, but that's kinda quoting him out of context. Especially when you supply part of the context.

Please, Bart Ehrman did state that "they [Mythicists] are ABSOLUTELY right" with the CLAIMS they make.

And further, he did claim those issues create GENUINE problems for the study of the life of the historical Jesus.

Nothing has been taken out of context at all.

"Did Jesus Exist?" page 179 by Bart Ehrman

Quote:

Mythicists sometimes like to revel in the historical problems posed by the Gospels: we do not have the original texts of the Gospels, and there are places where we do not know what the authors originally said; the Gospels are not authored by the persons named in their titles (Matthew, Mark, Luke and John) but were were written by people who were not his followers living forty to sixty years later in different parts of the world; the Gospels are full of discrepancies and contradictions; and the Gospels report historical events that can be shown not to have happened.

Some scholars may disagree with some of these claims--conservative evangelicals will disagree with all of them--but I personally think they are absolutely right. And I think that these issues create genuine problems for the study of the New Testament, the history of the early Christian church and the life of the historical Jesus...

Bart Ehrman has ADMITTED that the Mythicists claims have created GENUINE problems with the study of the Historical Jesus.

In effect, the Historical Jesus CANNOT be recovered because he is BURIED in SLABS of "Concrete" re-inforced with discrepancies--contradictions--implausibilities that cannot be dismantled.

Duke Leto · 07-17-2012, 11:26 AM

Yeah, but it kind of implies that he accepts all mythicist claims, which we know he does not.

aa5874 · 07-17-2012, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duke Leto

Yeah, but it kind of implies that he accepts all mythicist claims, which we know he does not.

Please, It is Ehrman who wrote those words at page 179 of "Did Jesus Exist?"

Quote:

Mythicists sometimes like to revel in the historical problems posed by the Gospels: we do not have the original texts of the Gospels, and there are places where we do not know what the authors originally said; the Gospels are not authored by the persons named in their titles (Matthew, Mark, Luke and John) but were were written by people who were not his followers living forty to sixty years later in different parts of the world; the Gospels are full of discrepancies and contradictions; and the Gospels report historical events that can be shown not to have happened.

Some scholars may disagree with some of these claims--conservative evangelicals will disagree with all of them--but I personally think they are absolutely right. And I think that these issues create genuine problems for the study of the New Testament, the history of the early Christian church and the life of the historical Jesus...

Mythicist claims are ABSOLUTELY right based on Ehrman.

Please, if you continue to read the book you will immediately realize that Ehrman is in a most contradictory position because having agreed that there are GENUINE problems with the study of the life of the historical Jesus he then asserts that mythicist claims are irrelevant for the question of whether or not there was an historical Jesus.

It is most absurd that GENUINE problems which affect the study of a character whose actual existence is questioned is irrelevant to the very question of his existence.

Please see "Did Jesus Exist?" page 179 to see the blatant absurd CONTRADICTORY statements of Ehrman.

Duke Leto · 07-17-2012, 01:48 PM

OK, whatever makes you feel happy...

aa5874 · 07-17-2012, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duke Leto

OK, whatever makes you feel happy...

No, No, No!!!! This has nothing to do with making me happy.

Ehrman's position is highly illogical.

Ehrman claims to be an historian and have written books that describe in DETAILS the very problems of discrepancies, contradictions and the historical reliability of the Gospels and Apologetic sources of antiquity and have AGREED that the claims of Mythicists are ABSOLUTELY right yet attempted to ridicule the same mythicists.

Something is radically wrong with Ehrman's logic. He does NOT make sense in "Did Jesus Exist?".

The very chapter 6 of "Did Jesus Exist?" which Ehrman titled "The mythicist case: weak and irrelevant claims" is the very same chapter where he shows that the mythicists are ABSOLUTELY right and create GENUINE problems for the study of the Life of the historical Jesus.

Ehrman knew in ADVANCE of writing his book that the sources for an Historical Jesus was RIDDLED with Discrepancies, contradictions and events that could NOT have happened.

Ehrman IDENTIFIED so-called Plausible stories in the Gospels and claimed they NEVER did happen. The release of Barabbas is a fiction story according to Ehrmam.

Ehrman's position is FAR WORSE than Fundamentalists. At least fundamentalist say that the sources for Jesus are true.

aa5874 · 07-17-2012, 08:26 PM

Ehrman buries the HJ argument is SLABS of Concrete forever.

An Historical Jesus cannot ever be recovered after reading "Did Jesus Exist?".

Ehrman claimed that NONE of the Canonised or Non-Canonised Gospels are eye-witness accounts of the life of Jesus . See page 49 of "Did Jesus Exist?"

Now, this is PRECISELY and EXACTLY what MJers EXPECTED if Jesus was a Myth.

There can be NO eye-witness account of a Mythological character.

Ehrman MUST, MUST, MUST have known that in advance of writing his book.

Once Jesus did NOT exist then NO one could have seen him.

Once Jesus did NOT exist then we will have NO eye-witness account.

Ehrman claims he is an Historian.

Ehrman KNEW in advance of writing his book that NO Jesus story have been recovered and dated by Paleography or C14 to the 1st century.

Ehrman knew in ADVANCE of writing "Did Jesus Exist?" that:

1. There are NO eyewitness accounts of the life of Jesus.

2. There are NO recovered Jesus story DATED to the 1st century by Paleography or C14.

3. The Gospels contains discrepancies, contradictions and events that did NOT happen.

In effect, Ehrman KNEW in ADVANCE of writing his book that the life of Jesus could NOT EVER be recovered.

Ehrman needs to REFUND me. I want my money back.

Ehrman as an Historian KNEW IN ADVANCE that he could NOT recover an the life of an historical Jesus from the NT.

Please Examine page 49 line 8-12 of Did Jesus Exist?" by Bart Ehrman.

I want my money back. Ehrman as an Historian knew IN ADVANCE that he could NOT deliver the life of an historical Jesus.

Duke Leto · 07-17-2012, 10:51 PM

You need to dial the red font back a few notches.

Look, I wasn't saying that Ehrman was correct in the thesis of his book, that his argument is logical or that HJ existed.

I'm simply pointing out that he was obviously making a rhetorical point by saying mythicists are absolutely right to doubt the Gospel accounts as written. I'm not going to buy the book to confirm this but I'm sure that in the paragraph immediately after he turns around and says something like "but just because the mythicists are absolutely right to question the Gospel accounts doesn't mean there wasn't a HJ!"

Quoting him out of context to make it look like he's admitting something he obviously isn't is just plain rude. You'd be furious if a fundamentalist or historicist did it to you.

That's all I'm saying.

aa5874 · 07-17-2012, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duke Leto

You need to dial the red font back a few notches.

Look, I wasn't saying that Ehrman was correct in the thesis of his book, that his argument is logical or that HJ existed.

I'm simply pointing out that he was obviously making a rhetorical point by saying mythicists are absolutely right to doubt the Gospel accounts as written. I'm not going to buy the book to confirm this but I'm sure that in the paragraph immediately after he turns around and says something like "but just because the mythicists are absolutely right to question the Gospel accounts doesn't mean there wasn't a HJ!"

Quoting him out of context to make it look like he's admitting something he obviously isn't is just plain rude. You'd be furious if a fundamentalist or historicist did it to you.

That's all I'm saying.

You really don't know what you are talking about. How many times must I tell you to READ the book or the very chapter???

The statement was made at page 179 of the 6th chapter of Did Jesus Exist?

Later, Bart Ehrman did ADMIT and Show:

1. We do NOT have the original Text of the Gospel. See Page 180.

2. We do NOT know who wrote the Gospels. See Page 181.

3. The Gospels are filled with Discrepancies and Contradictions. See page 182

4. The Gospels contain Non-historical material. See Page 184

Ehrman has CONFIRMED that Mythicists are ABSOLUTELY right when they REVEL in the historical problems of the Gospels.

I want my money back because Ehrman knew of the Historical problems of the Gospels BEFORE he wrote the book and that the study of the life of the historical Jesus had GENUINE problems.

The life of the historical Jesus cannot be recovered.

Ehrman must give me back my money.

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07-17-2012, 11:26 AM	#4
Duke Leto Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 3,387	Yeah, but it kind of implies that he accepts all mythicist claims, which we know he does not.

07-17-2012, 01:48 PM	#6
Duke Leto Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 3,387	OK, whatever makes you feel happy...

07-17-2012, 08:26 PM	#8
aa5874 Contributor Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: the fringe of the caribbean Posts: 18,988	Ehrman buries the HJ argument is SLABS of Concrete forever. An Historical Jesus cannot ever be recovered after reading "Did Jesus Exist?". Ehrman claimed that NONE of the Canonised or Non-Canonised Gospels are eye-witness accounts of the life of Jesus . See page 49 of "Did Jesus Exist?" Now, this is PRECISELY and EXACTLY what MJers EXPECTED if Jesus was a Myth. There can be NO eye-witness account of a Mythological character. Ehrman MUST, MUST, MUST have known that in advance of writing his book. Once Jesus did NOT exist then NO one could have seen him. Once Jesus did NOT exist then we will have NO eye-witness account. Ehrman claims he is an Historian. Ehrman KNEW in advance of writing his book that NO Jesus story have been recovered and dated by Paleography or C14 to the 1st century. Ehrman knew in ADVANCE of writing "Did Jesus Exist?" that: 1. There are NO eyewitness accounts of the life of Jesus. 2. There are NO recovered Jesus story DATED to the 1st century by Paleography or C14. 3. The Gospels contains discrepancies, contradictions and events that did NOT happen. In effect, Ehrman KNEW in ADVANCE of writing his book that the life of Jesus could NOT EVER be recovered. Ehrman needs to REFUND me. I want my money back. Ehrman as an Historian KNEW IN ADVANCE that he could NOT recover an the life of an historical Jesus from the NT. Please Examine page 49 line 8-12 of Did Jesus Exist?" by Bart Ehrman. I want my money back. Ehrman as an Historian knew IN ADVANCE that he could NOT deliver the life of an historical Jesus.

07-17-2012, 10:51 PM	#9
Duke Leto Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 3,387	You need to dial the red font back a few notches. Look, I wasn't saying that Ehrman was correct in the thesis of his book, that his argument is logical or that HJ existed. I'm simply pointing out that he was obviously making a rhetorical point by saying mythicists are absolutely right to doubt the Gospel accounts as written. I'm not going to buy the book to confirm this but I'm sure that in the paragraph immediately after he turns around and says something like "but just because the mythicists are absolutely right to question the Gospel accounts doesn't mean there wasn't a HJ!" Quoting him out of context to make it look like he's admitting something he obviously isn't is just plain rude. You'd be furious if a fundamentalist or historicist did it to you. That's all I'm saying.

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