Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Roller · 08-04-2006, 01:27 PM

Paul seemed to believe in end times during his lifetime, no? Especially when he likens Jesus' resurrection with the first fruits of harvest. Or when he says that "we living will be taken to heaven" (so he will still be alive when it happens). At least thats how it seems to me.

GenesisNemesis · 08-04-2006, 02:17 PM

Could I see that verse? :devil3:

Roller · 08-04-2006, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by One_Of_Logic

Could I see that verse? :devil3:

1 Corinthians 15:20-21 "But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who have fallen asleep."

1 Corinthians 15:23 "But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ."

In agricultural societies, first fruits of the harvest would be picked up and then they would throw a party. The rest of the fruits would be picked up tomorrow. This way, Paul is trying to show that the resurrection of the dead is imminent. Jesus is a first fruit of the resurrection, tomorrow the rest will follow.

This brief analysis relies heavily on what Bart Ehrman has to say about the topic. I hope I didn't do a disservice to him.

As far as belief that this is going to happen during his lifetime, try:

1 Thessalonians 4:15-18 "For this we declare to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will by no means precede those who have died. For the Lord himself, with a cry of command, with the archangel’s call and with the sound of God’s trumpet, will descend from heaven, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up in the clouds together with them to meet the Lord in the air; and so we will be with the Lord for ever. 18Therefore encourage one another with these words.

Joan of Bark · 08-04-2006, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffevnz

It's pointless to debate these things. There's two kinds of Xtians out there: 1) inerrantists and 2) those who admit non-literal interpretations.

Since members of (1) take the literal and complete truth of the Bible as an axiom, you might as well argue with a brick wall. Members of (2), OTOH, will simply interpret away the contradictions and absurdities, so that there's nothing to argue about. Nontrivial debates don't happen in either case. The first one ends in an immediate standoff, and the second comes to a quick and meaningless resolution.

I agree that there are two kinds of Christians, but they fall into these categories:

1) Those who claim to take the Bible literally, but will switch to an interpretation when confronted with a passage they disagree with, and ...

2) Those who claim it must be interpreted, but will switch to literalness when they encounter a passage they agree with.

:Cheeky:

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08-04-2006, 01:27 PM	#31
Roller Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Cleveland Posts: 658	Paul seemed to believe in end times during his lifetime, no? Especially when he likens Jesus' resurrection with the first fruits of harvest. Or when he says that "we living will be taken to heaven" (so he will still be alive when it happens). At least thats how it seems to me.

08-04-2006, 02:17 PM	#32
GenesisNemesis Contributor Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: A pale blue oblate spheroid. Posts: 20,351	Could I see that verse? :devil3:

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