JoeWallack

Faith

JW:
To give you some idea of the Scope of this Bible "Difficulty" the majority of your fellow Christians here such as Smith, Carlson, Criddle and Don would Confess to us that there Probably is a Contradiction error between "Matthew" and "Luke" as to the Date of Jesus' supposed Birth.

All Significant Apologetic attempts accept that Herod the Great died around 4 BCE and that Josephus reported a census of Judea by Quirinius, governor of Syria, around 6 CE. All of these Apologies try to argue that when "Luke" writes:

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php/Luke_2

2:1 "Now it came to pass in those days, there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be enrolled.

2:2 This was the first enrolment made when Quirinius was governor of Syria."

"Luke" is referring to a Different census than Josephus was.

Here is an Inventory of the best freely available Defenses I've found on the Internet:

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php/Luke_2:2#Neutral

which will help bring you up to speed. Even as an Unbeliever I can testify as to the power of Scripture as I myself saw it transform Ramsey from a Historian into an Apologist. Hallelulah!

Once again I request that you respond in the:

Carrier's Luke vs. Matthew on the Year of Christ's Birth Now Up At ErrancyWiki

Thread which is Devotional to the Subject so we don't get distracted by other Topics.



Joseph

FAITH, n.
Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel.

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php/Main_Page

gregor

I know you probably didn't mean it this way (and to give Faithful more things to fret about), but it's a description of a 'past' event. The historicity of the Exodus is dealt with elsewhere.

John Kesler

Here are a few more discrepancies:

1) Why was Moses not allowed into the promised land? Was it because of his own disobedience (Numbers 20:10-12; 27:12-13; Deut. 32:48-52), or was he punished vicariously because of the Israelites' transgressions (Deut.1:34-37; 3:21-27;4:20-22)?

The passages which indicate that Moses suffered vicariously not only don't mention any culpability on Moses' part, they explicitly say that Moses paid the price for the sins of others:

2) Did God allow Judah to go into Babylonian captivity because they did not heed God's prophets (2 Chronicles 36:15-17) or because of Manasseh's wickedness (2 Kings 21:11-14; 2 Kings 24:1-4)?

Keep in mind that the Chronicler claims that Manasseh repented (2 Chronicles 33:10-17), a fact not found in the Kings narrative. The Chronicler also penned the following:

It didn't fit the Chronicler's theology to have the exile occur because of the sins of Manasseh, since not only did Manasseh repent (according to the Chronicler), but according to Kings, the exile was predicted after Josiah effected a return to worshiping Yahweh (2 Kings 23:21-27). Notice that the Chronicler moves the pronouncement of exile until after the reign of the wicked Zedekiah--see 2 Chronicles 36:11-21).

3) Did Aaron die at Moserah (Deut. 10:6) or on top of Mt. Hor (Numbers 33:38; Deut 32:50)? NOTE: Moserah (with alternate spellings "Moseroth" and "Mosera," is *between* Sinai and Mt. Hor according to Numbers 33:15-37).

James Brown

You are correct, of course. It's all about baby steps.

Faithful

You must know about genetics. If one person has cancer, they can pass that gene down to future generations. I believe there is such a thing as generational curses as well, where faults and influences can pass down through the bloodline. What you sew you shall reap. Thusly, another scripture re the rooting out the fruition of a bad seed.

Exodus 34: 7 I show this unfailing love to many thounds by forgiving every kind of sin and rebellion. Even so I do not leave sin unpunished, but I punish the children for the sins of their parents to the third and fourth generations.

However ,there is hope of a reprieve because sin can be forgiven. In verse 8 Moses speaks up for his stubborn generation and God answers in verse 10 "All right. This is the covenant I am going to make with you. I will perform wonders -----"

BTW I wasn't about the Amalekites, I was talking abut the tribe of Ephraim. Anyway God, didn't wipe them out because they asked for forgivenenss.

Amaleq13

I'm not sure about the other three but Stephen has argued against a contradiction in this thread and on his blog (linked in the thread).

Sven

Umm, cancer is not a genetic desease. So it's apparently it's you who does not know about genetics.

You can believe whatever you like, but the evidence clearly does not favor this belief.

And generational curses are supposed to be just in which way exactly?

Again, how is this just? Would an omnibenevolent being indeed do such a thing?

Faithful

So?? Herod could still have been king.

How did Quirinius get in here?

Luke 2: 1 In those days Caesar Augustus issued a decree that a census should be taken of the entire Roman world. 2(This was the first census that took place while Quirinius was governor of Syria.) 3And everyone went to his own town to register.
4So Joseph also went up from the town of Nazareth in Galilee to Judea, to Bethlehem the town of David, because he belonged to the house and line of David. 5He went there to register with Mary, who was pledged to be married to him and was expecting a child. 6While they were there, the time came for the baby to be born, 7and she gave birth to her firstborn, a son. She wrapped him in cloths and placed him in a manger, because there was no room for them in the inn.

I've no problem with that




John never recorded the birth of Jesus - it was recorded in Matthew and Luke only.

Luke 2:39 When Joseph and Mary had done everything required by the Law of the Lord, they returned to Galilee to their own town of Nazareth.

Faithful

John Kesler, there is a lot of wallop packed into that one post. I have to run now, but will get back to y'all later.

Jack the Bodiless

Faithful:
Despite being dead at the time? They propped his corpse up on the throne for a decade?

You're not making any sense.
OK, what part of "Quirinius became governor a decade after Herod's death" do you not understand?
Did you not notice that those were links? You can click on them.

John records that people rejected Jesus because he wasn't born in Bethlehem (as the Messiah should have been).

And the town described in the Bible as "Nazareth" doesn't match the REAL Nazareth (in which there is no "hill" for Jesus to be thrown off). If I write a story in which the people of Manhattan take someone up the "high hill on which the city is built" to throw him off a cliff: don't you think the flatness of the island of Manhattan poses a problem here?