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Old 09-22-2009, 07:43 AM   #91
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Oh now we see how it works. When a real historical place is mentioned in Ezekiel, it refers to that real historical place. But when the same place is mentioned in Revelation, it does not, because that real historical place no longer exists, therefor it must be allegory.
Ezekiel mentions a mighty army from the North will have the strength of the Iron within it, and it will be divided. Russia's nickname is The Iron Curtain, and Russia was divided in 1991.

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Allegory for what though? Well it says "north", and even though the land mentioned is a allegory 'North' must not be, and the only really nasty place I can think of North of Israel is the USSR....I mean, Russia. Therefor Magog is Russia.
Yes, Ezekiel does explain the mighty army from the North. We must understand the location where this was being written. From Ezekiel's stand point. Russia is North of Israel, and they will have the strength of the iron. We must understand in modern times that Russia didn't exist in the days of the bible...

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This is pure unadulterated insanity.
The only insanity is those people who want to ignore that Russia is now supply Iran with weapons.

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Why do you dismiss portions as allegorical, but insist the rest is literal? That isn't the way writers of allegory write. If Magog is allegorical, then so is "North", and really so is everything else in Revelation.
How can you misunderstand "the mighty north will supply persia"

What's happening as we speak? The mighty army north of Israel (Russia) is supply Iran.

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Your Christian cohorts have turned Revelation into a cartoonish fantasy. If there is a god involved in the writing of that book, he's probably really pissed at the rampant nonsense you people have created.
My Christian brothers and sisters have decoded the Book of Revelation for the world to see it clearly. Bible scholars study these verses, and they explain them so the western world knows what is going on.

An uneducated eye will see, "The mighty North" -- who's that?
Persia? Who is that? Where is Persia? Does Persia even exist?

No one is putting 2 and 2 together and revealing the message.

And that's what Revelation means.. revealing a message..
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Old 09-22-2009, 07:48 AM   #92
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This is important, IBIH.

How do you know what's allegorical and what is literal?

What tools are you using to figure this out?

And please, please, please don't say it's the Holy Spirit and only "true" Christians can interpret the Bible correctly.
Before I became a Christian, I had no idea about Russia supplying Iran with weapons for Armageddon. That was the least of my worries because I didn't know any better. Now I have the facts, and it's pretty damn frightening!!

How do I know about this? I have studied the message of God.

If you put yourself into the shoes of the writers, you can clearly see their message is for real.

And I don't think for a minute that Russia is trying to self-fulfill any biblical prophecy, and neither is Iran. Both of these countries burn bibles, and they execute anyone who follows biblical prophecy.

An Israeli warship intercepted a Russian ship carrying missiles to Iran in 2008.
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Old 09-22-2009, 08:00 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by spamandham View Post
Oh now we see how it works. When a real historical place is mentioned in Ezekiel, it refers to that real historical place. But when the same place is mentioned in Revelation, it does not, because that real historical place no longer exists, therefor it must be allegory.
Ezekiel mentions a mighty army from the North will have the strength of the Iron within it, and it will be divided. Russia's nickname is The Iron Curtain, and Russia was divided in 1991.

Yes, Ezekiel does explain the mighty army from the North. We must understand the location where this was being written. From Ezekiel's stand point. Russia is North of Israel, and they will have the strength of the iron. We must understand in modern times that Russia didn't exist in the days of the bible...

The only insanity is those people who want to ignore that Russia is now supply Iran with weapons.

How can you misunderstand "the mighty north will supply persia"

What's happening as we speak? The mighty army north of Israel (Russia) is supply Iran.

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Your Christian cohorts have turned Revelation into a cartoonish fantasy. If there is a god involved in the writing of that book, he's probably really pissed at the rampant nonsense you people have created.
My Christian brothers and sisters have decoded the Book of Revelation for the world to see it clearly. Bible scholars study these verses, and they explain them so the western world knows what is going on.

An uneducated eye will see, "The mighty North" -- who's that?
Persia? Who is that? Where is Persia? Does Persia even exist?

No one is putting 2 and 2 together and revealing the message.

And that's what Revelation means.. revealing a message..
Are there any "to-do" items we can take away from this.
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Old 09-22-2009, 08:02 AM   #94
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You have to take into consideration the time this was written. John witnessed the visions, but he couldn't describe them into words.
Huh? Because he couldn't describe that rivers would not stop warriors in the last days, therefor he had to write that the river would dry up...and since he wrote it, god is drying up the river, even though it's superfluous?

I'm afraid the disease may be terminal.



In spite of the fact that Iran has plenty of missiles that could reach Israel, missiles are not the only instruments of war that can cross rivers. There are these brand new devices called boats and bridges that are a matter of coarse in modern warfare, not to mentions jets and helicopters. Modern warfare is not impeded in any significant way by rivers, and Iran's military is more than capable of attacking across even a flooded Euphrates.

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So, all in all, I would have to say the oceans and the rivers are a great force.






We're talking specifically about the Euphrates, not the Atlantic ocean, which incidentally, is not drying up.


I thought the prophesy was all about chariots and swords and things.
So why talk about helicopters?

i almost wish the thing would finish drying up so that the date for armageddon could get reset again.
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Old 09-22-2009, 08:02 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by IBelieveInHymn View Post

Yes, Ezekiel does explain the mighty army from the North. We must understand the location where this was being written. From Ezekiel's stand point. Russia is North of Israel, and they will have the strength of the iron. We must understand in modern times that Russia didn't exist in the days of the bible...
Ezekiel is not a prophecy of "end times", it's a description of contemporary events of those days. It isn't a valid form of hermeneutics to simply pick and choose bits and pieces of the Bible as convenient to support apocalyptic presuppositions,

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The only insanity is those people who want to ignore that Russia is now supply Iran with weapons.
Russia supplies weapons to anyone with money. Russia has no interest in attacking Israel, and if Iran attacks, Russia will not get involved...other than to happily sell more weapons.

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How can you misunderstand "the mighty north will supply persia"
That isn't even Revelation.

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An uneducated eye will see, "The mighty North" -- who's that?
Persia? Who is that? Where is Persia? Does Persia even exist?
Thank Rah I don't suffer from this type of 'education'.
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Old 09-22-2009, 08:07 AM   #96
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There, that wasn't so hard now was it?
No, it wasn't hard.. You will find out along my stay in here.. when I'm wrong I admit it. I have nothing to gain by lying to anyone, especially to atheists.
Thanks! That is a refreshing approach.
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Old 09-22-2009, 08:16 AM   #97
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Ezekiel is not a prophecy of "end times", it's a description of contemporary events of those days. It isn't a valid form of hermeneutics to simply pick and choose bits and pieces of the Bible as convenient to support apocalyptic presuppositions
Ezekiel 14:12 says I will gather all Nations in Jerusalem to battle, and this will be the plague I shall send upon the enemies of Israel; Their flesh shall rot as they stand on their own two feet, Their eyeballs will rot in their sockets, and their tongues shall rot in their mouth.

How can you NOT see Ezekiel prophecized the end of days?

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Russia supplies weapons to anyone with money. Russia has no interest in attacking Israel, and if Iran attacks, Russia will not get involved...other than to happily sell more weapons.
Russia didn't exist in the days of Ezekiel, or John for that matter. Russia is the Mighty army from the North, as foretold in the bible.

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That isn't even Revelation.
I never said it was from Revelation... Here is my exact post;

Yes, Ezekiel does explain the mighty army from the North. We must understand the location where this was being written. From Ezekiel's stand point. Russia is North of Israel, and they will have the strength of the iron. We must understand in modern times that Russia didn't exist in the days of the bible...

The only insanity is those people who want to ignore that Russia is now supply Iran with weapons.

How can you misunderstand "the mighty north will supply persia"


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Thank Rah I don't suffer from this type of 'education'.
You can thank whoever you want. But you need to get educated on Biblical prophecy. :Cheeky:
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Old 09-22-2009, 08:18 AM   #98
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No, it wasn't hard.. You will find out along my stay in here.. when I'm wrong I admit it. I have nothing to gain by lying to anyone, especially to atheists.
Thanks! That is a refreshing approach.
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Old 09-22-2009, 08:26 AM   #99
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This is important, IBIH.

How do you know what's allegorical and what is literal?

What tools are you using to figure this out?

And please, please, please don't say it's the Holy Spirit and only "true" Christians can interpret the Bible correctly.
Before I became a Christian, I had no idea about Russia supplying Iran with weapons for Armageddon. That was the least of my worries because I didn't know any better. Now I have the facts, and it's pretty damn frightening!!

How do I know about this? I have studied the message of God.

If you put yourself into the shoes of the writers, you can clearly see their message is for real.

And I don't think for a minute that Russia is trying to self-fulfill any biblical prophecy, and neither is Iran. Both of these countries burn bibles, and they execute anyone who follows biblical prophecy.

An Israeli warship intercepted a Russian ship carrying missiles to Iran in 2008.
I'm not exactly sure, but I don't think you addressed my points at all.

:constern01:
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Old 09-22-2009, 08:30 AM   #100
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You can thank whoever you want. But you need to get educated on Biblical prophecy. :Cheeky:
Hi IBelieveInHymn,

That is sage advice. I have a serious question for you. From early times, Christians have been expecting the end, and up until now, they have always been wrong. Why are you so certain that you are right this time?
Many Christians in the second century CE looked for a literal fulfillment of the eschaton in their day. Many of them were chilianists; they expected a literal thousand year reign of Christ just around the corner. This belief was widespread among the proto-orthodox. Papias, Justin Martyr, Irenaues, and Tertullian were all in this camp. Writing in the years following the Second Jewish Revolt (Dial 1.3;9.3; EH 4.19.9) Justin viewed that revolt as an indication that the end was soon.

Montanus expected that the New Jerusalem would descend on his hometown of Pepuza, in Phrygia (central Turkey) sometime around 170 CE. He also had two prophetesses, named Priscilla and Maximilla, who delivered other predictions about times and events.

Indeed, no less an personage than Tertullian believed that the end was so close, that the spires and walls of the New Jerusalem could already be seen hovering in the sky!!

"And the word of the New Prophecy which is a part of our belief, attests how it foretold that there would be for a sign a picture of this very city exhibited. to view previous to its manifestation. This prophecy, indeed, has been very lately fulfilled in an expedition to
the East. For it is evident from the testimony of even heathen witnesses, that in Judaea there was suspended in the sky a city early every morning for forty days. As the day advanced, the entire figure of its walls would wane gradually, and sometimes it would vanish instantly. We say that this city has been provided by God for receiving the saints on their resurrection." Tertullian, AM 3.25.
http://www.earlychristianwritings.co...ullian123.html

If I may say so, the Euprates river decreasing in volume and Russia flying an airplane are pretty lame indicators compared to the Holy City cavorting in the sky. I have collected a whole series of old evangelical pamplets and books from the mid 1970's that argue quite persuasively that the Rapture would have to occur within a generation (40 years) of the founding of Israel in 1948. Woops, missed again! Then the Soviet Union collapsed, and Sept 11, 2001 occured, with new bad guys in the guise of Iraq and Iran. And the same prophecies were reinterpreted afresh to conform to the most recent news cycle.

Are you willing to admit that the most recent cycle of prophecy hunting may also be mistaken?

Best,
Jake
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