Johnny Skeptic

There is a difference between reasonably verifying the claim that Julius Caesar crossed the Rubicon River and that Jesus performed miracles, right?

andrewcriddle

In which category does the claim that the Emperor Vespasian peformed healing miracles fall ?

Andrew Criddle

Calilasseia

In answer to the OP, I'd say simply that you assess such claims in the standard fashion - demand evidence. The wilder and more remarkable the claim, the more substantive the evidence needs to be. Which should also answer the Vespasian matter too.

For example, if I claim that I walked 200 yards up the roads to the shops earlier today, this is hardly a remarkable claim. However, if one wishes to be truly pedantic, one could demand that I provide evidence that there ARE shops 200 yards up the road from my house (which I can with maps and photos), and that I did indeed perform that particular ambulatory feat (which, in actual fact, I did not, because I'm still digesting my late breakfast and have yet to move myself out of the house). However, if I decide that I'm going to inform people that I will walk to the shops tomorrow, I could take my camera and shoot some footage, and lay any doubts of my actually conducting the action that way. A lot of effort for a trivial task, but as I've just outlined above, there's a difference between making a claim for performing an action, and providing evidence for the performance of that action. This seemingly trivial example of mine should serve to illustrate that elementary principle, one which I should hope is obvious to everyone here to the point of being superfluous for me to state.

I'm sure a quick trip to James Randi's website will elaborate upon this in great detail with respect to the matter of dealing with supernatural claims of all kinds, and the matter of weeding out hoaxes and intentional frauds.

Chili

You and who Johnny? A two by four?

John Kesler

You assess supernatural claims the same way in which you assess any claim. The claim that I had dinner last night with George W. Bush, while not a supernatural one, is nonetheless one that would require more to substantiate it than my assertion.

BALDUCCI

But its more subtle and complicated than this. It may not simply be a case of actual verification. What needs to be tackled may not be whether the miracle occurred, but whether the observers believed the miracle to have occurred, and for what reasons. Miracles are social phenomena, not simply scientific hypotheses

Johnny Skeptic

Which categories are there to choose from?

In your opinion, does it make any difference how many people supposedly saw Jesus after he rose from the dead? Do you know of any credible historical evidence regarding how many people saw Jesus after he rose from the dead?

Would you like to make a case for Christianity without mentioning any eyewitnesses and assume for the sake of argument that Jesus spiritually rose from the dead, and never made any personal appearances?

Is it your intention to use this forum to promote Christianity? If so, conservative Christian, moderate Christianity, or liberal Christianity?

Chili

--If Magdalene did not recognize Jesus other people would not recognize him.
--that Magdalene did not recognize him means it was a spiritual event.
--there is no case to be made for Christianity, not conservative or otherwise.
--Jesus was the ego idenity that was crucified and raised from the dead.
--Magdalene was the maid he loved and left to be raised.

aa5874

There is really no need to ask for proof to reject supernatural events. There are thousands of supernatural beings that have already been catergorised as myths. It is widely known and accepted that myths carry out miracles

All that is necessary is for the entity to be described. If an entity existed before it was born, have no earthly parents, was conceived by ghosts, has the abilty to change its appearance, that is, from a ghost to god, has the abilty to resurrect, walk through the walls of buildings, and vanish without a trace, then any action carried out by such a creature is a miracle, even if the creature only smiled.

BALDUCCI

aa5874

All that may be true, but you are still left with the social phenomenon of millions who know about mythology and never argue that it is true, and yet see Jesus' miracles as different. You cant deal with this phenomenon simply by analogue, not, that is, if your goal is to influence anyone else