arnoldo

Yeah I guess your right, there are several countires (some with nuclear weapons) who have openly stated they wish to wipe Israel off the map. So do you think that war is inevitable or do you think there is a peacful solution to this issue?

Sheshonq

There are no countries with nuclear weapons who have said that. Do you make this stuff up before, or *after*, you have your bedtime medications?

Johnny Skeptic

I asked the following questions:

1 - If the Jews did not occupy Jerusalem, but occupied 70% of Palestine, would you call that a fulfilled Bible prophecy?

2 - If the Jews occupied one square mile of Palestine, would you call that a fulfilled prophecy? If not, why not?

3 - Why do you believe that the Jews will not be kicked out of Palestine again?

Now will you please be so kind as to tell us what in the world who does or does not have nuclear weapons have to do with my questions? Do you intend to answer my questions or not.

I suggest that you consider what will happen if you continue your current evasive approach. For days you directly answered posts and were willing to discuss evidence. Now your replies have degraded to the point where you are hardly discussing issues at all. You are outnumbered in this thread. There is no way that you will be able to outlast skeptics because even if some skeptics vacate this thread, other skeptics will take their place. Your only chance is to stick to discussing evidence and give logical answers to questions that skeptics ask you.

It is apparent that after initially being confident of victory, which is typical of Christians who come to the IIDB, which is the most presitigious and most visited skeptic web site in the world, you have discovered that pickin's here at the IIDB aren't so easy after all.

Toto

THIS IS NOT THE POLITICS FORUM.

Thank you.

Johnny Skeptic

Message to arnoldo: The partition of Palestine is a bona fide example of a self-fulfilled Bible prophecy. If Jewish and Palestinian history had been reversed, and Palestinians had been persecuted by Hitler and other parties instead of Jews, there is no way that the U.N. would have granted Palestinians control of Jerusalem and a grossly disproportionate amount of land per capita like the Jews got. Logically, if the Partition of Palestine was not a self-fulfilled prophecy, under my hypothetical scenario, the U.N. would have granted the Palestians control of Jerusalem and a grossly disproportionate amount of land per capita like the Jews got, but as you know, under that scenario, such would not have been the case. Of the 33 governments that voted in favor of the partition, 32 are predominantly Christian. The only non-Christian government that voted for the partition was Russia. At that time, Russia was joyfully getting lots of aid from the U.S. for rebuilding purposes, and was certainly not interested in contesting the wishes of the U.S. and 31 other countries.

Kharakov

Sure isn't, but most of the practitioners are of the henotheistic variety. There are even atheist Hindus. Neat, huh? Anyway, Hinduism, at least the henotheistic variety acknowledging the infinite Godhead, acknowledges all things as manifesting from the infinite, even atheists.
That Gods don't exist just because someone believes in them? You don't know the power of the Arnoldo.

Kharakov

Don't ask me first. Pray to God for an answer. If God doesn't tell you personally, then I will tell you.
I have little faith in my belief system. I don't trust anyone or anything, and my beliefs (if you want to call them that) are based on what other people have told me, what I have read, and what I feel.

Of course, everyone says different things and the only thing that I have found to be true is you can't trust anybody. Especially someone who wants you to believe something that can result in you giving them what you own (any form of wealth that provides tangible or intangible benefits).
I have no proof and I deny I have faith in anything, even logic. Logic doesn't convince anyone but believers in logic. Something about believers in logic- they don't believe in anything else, because logic.... well. Godel's incompleteness theo....
Well, these guys have been giving you several valid points in their attacks on the biblical prophecies you are defending. You do use the standard defenses against these attacks which leaves both of you nowhere.

As long as these prophecies being real is the foundation of your faith, you have problems. Your faith (or lack of it in my case) has to be based on God's action or lack of action in your own life.

The simple fact is some men are pretty evil, and would be willing to fulfill Bible prophecies for political and economic gain. You could say God uses these men to fulfill the prophecies, and you might be right, but it also could be as they say, it's just men fulfilling prophecies they want to fulfill.

Also, these guys say there are little discrepancies between real world events and the prophecies contained in the bible which have to be addressed. You need to research the differences between real world events and biblical prophecy that these guys brought up. Find out if what they say is true. Is there a prophecy that Egypt will not be livable for 30 years (or whatever it is)? That hasn't happened in recorded history.

Lot's of prophets, it's possible that even some from the Bible, are false prophets- speaking of visions for their own reasons. I've had visions myself, but I don't talk about them, because I think they are probably not going to happen.

Jack the Bodiless

Yes.
Nope, you're still confused.

What you have just provided is a list of possible explanations for "prophecies" that appear to be TRUE. In order to establish that a supernatural prophecy has indeed occurred, the apologist must rule out all other possibilities.

But the Bible also includes "prophecies" that are FALSE. Examples include the Tyre, Egypt and Babylon prophecies: they simply didn't pan out.

arnoldo

Sorry, didn't you say that Moses is a myth and the Jews never entered Egypt? Why are you upset about something that never happened? Well, er, uh. . .

arnoldo

I guess you are equally outraged at the behavior of the ancient greek gods too, right?