Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Tigers! · 01-17-2006, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sven

You know how some quacks work? They invent a non-existent disease and are then ready to provide the cure for it.

Oh yes, Gos was angry with us and the only way out for this omnipotent being was to sacrifice himself to himself so save us from his own wrath.

Didn't you ever think that this sounds a bit silly?

Silliness is not the issue, truth is. My thoughts concerning the silliness or not of an idea has no bearing on it's truth. Though granted, apparent silliness could be indicative of untruthness, it does not guarantee it.
I did find some aspects of qunatum mechanics hard to fathom. Does this mean they are not true? Of course not!

Tigers! · 01-17-2006, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sven

Is it possible that you don't understand the meaning of "references"?
Could you give the names of some of these scholars (you know, neither Papias/Eusebius, Irenaeus, nor Justin Martyr had the means to determine the time of authorship (AFAIK), so let's just ignore them for the moment), and articles, books, websites they wrote?

Yes, I'm aware of that "proof" is not something for science.

I have never understood the certainty that some have that the aforementioned people cannot be trusted. They would have had access to documentation/records that due to the ravages of time, war, natural disasters etc:, are now lost to us.

TySixtus · 01-17-2006, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noah

As you know, other people rose or were raised from the dead. Elijah was even taken up to heaven.

No they were not, and this is precisely my point. Or are you taking the hypothetical stance here?

Ty

Trout · 01-17-2006, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hatsoff

Sure there is. We have dozens of texts from the first century.

You kidding me friend?

Just because you read it means squat.

Not to mention, that was a looooong time ago in a very different culture witha different language, etc. Try translating Chinese into English somtime and you'll be about half way there in getting the actual point across from the original text.

Oh here's a flash for you as well:

People do not start walking around after they die! Scheesh people.

BDS · 01-17-2006, 04:54 PM

Hatsoff is, of course, correct that eye witness accounts constitute "evidence" in any court of law of which I am aware. What is as incredible as someone rising from the dead is that some people in this thread seem to disagree. Unbelievable! That any reasonable person would think eye witness accounts are NOT evidence is every bit as bizarre as the dead rising from their graves.

Toto · 01-17-2006, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BDS

Hatsoff is, of course, correct that eye witness accounts constitute "evidence" in any court of law of which I am aware. What is as incredible as someone rising from the dead is that some people in this thread seem to disagree. Unbelievable! That any reasonable person would think eye witness accounts are NOT evidence is every bit as bizarre as the dead rising from their graves.

I don't think that anyone has denied that an eyewitness account would be evidence - although it might not always be very good evidence, it is evidence. Of course, we now know that eyewitness testimony can be highly unreliable, and eyewitnesses are often shown to be in error in courts of law, even if the eyewitness is sincere and honest.

But I don't think that we have any eyewitness accounts of the resurrection. We have later accounts that claim that unknown people saw a risen Jesus, but no good reason to connect those stories to eyewitnesses.

pharoah · 01-17-2006, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tigers!

All the other resurrections mentioned in both OT & NT i.e. Elijah raising the widow's son, Lazarus, Dorcas, Jairus' daughter et al all died again later. Christ died just the once.

And before someone gets picky I have not incluced Enoch or Elijah as they were taken by God and did not die.

So when did the resurrected saints mentioned by Matthews die again? And what was that scrap between Michael and Satan concerning Moses' body all about?

01-17-2006, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pharoah

Anyone can look in the Bible and see that the virgin birth story is bogus,

An interesting thought on this: If Jesus came from a virgin birth, then whose DNA did he have - (half Mary's and the other half ???)

Tuffa.

Tigers! · 01-17-2006, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pharoah

So when did the resurrected saints mentioned by Matthews die again? And what was that scrap between Michael and Satan concerning Moses' body all about?

Concerning Moses body it was probably about the desposition of the Moses' body (Jude 9). Satan wanted it for his purposes and God sent Michael to stop him.

Tigers! · 01-17-2006, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuffa Nuff

An interesting thought on this: If Jesus came from a virgin birth, then whose DNA did he have - (half Mary's and the other half ???)

Tuffa.

I suppose it depends on whether the Holy Spirit used one of Mary's eggs or directly implanted the embryo/zygote. If the former half Mary's, if the latter, totally unique.

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01-17-2006, 04:54 PM	#85
BDS Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Eugene, OR, USA Posts: 3,187	Hatsoff is, of course, correct that eye witness accounts constitute "evidence" in any court of law of which I am aware. What is as incredible as someone rising from the dead is that some people in this thread seem to disagree. Unbelievable! That any reasonable person would think eye witness accounts are NOT evidence is every bit as bizarre as the dead rising from their graves.

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