spin

Perhaps you could explain why.


spin

cass256

Oh, I don't mind being let down. Feel free to point out any place you find in my post that a superior source contradicts, the strong's, or any source I may find. For the present I am a bit limited, so I'll probably quote what is available. I actually had a BDB at one time, but lost every book I owned during my last move. i'm piecing back little by little. I use an interlinear Hebrew Greek that has strong's numbers, so it would be fantastic to be able to find any word to look up in the BDB and compare with Strong's. . great! I will Amazon a copy.

I've read a bit and trying to follow the debate on this thread. I find it hard to trust any text that is a copy of a copy from one language to the next, with transliterations, as well as blatent errors. I actually suspect that some of the authors did not write the letters themselves, and so we are trusting not only non eye witness reports, but are at the mercy of both the scribes and interpretors.

Didn't Josephus write some of his works in Aramaic? The rest in Greek? I wouldn't trust much of what he said in English either. If I was a Jew in Rome you'd get all sorts of stories out of me. They probably never realized he couldn't speak a lick of Hebrew.

I am trying to figure out why it is such a large issue wether he may have spoken Hebrew. Actually I would have an easier time beliving Hebrew was spoken if they would stop translating words into "the Hebrew tongue". Since jews were also known as Hebrews, at some point Aramaic would be considered the Hebrew tongue. Compared to Greek it is.
I have also read golgatha was from Aramaic. I don't have the source but I did see it also when looking at a search page that led to wikipedia. they list a number of words as aramaic and contradict the fact that it was a Hebrew word. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golgotha

There is a bit more but basically "John's somewhat misleadingly labels the name as 'Hebrew', indicating the 'language of the Hebrews', which was Aramaic at that time."
If we check we may find that Pilate is one of the authors on the Wikipedia site. (just kidding Pilate )Who knows who wrote that stuff..
Though, I'd tend to believe John knew squat about the Hebrew language. I'm afraid if the word is Aramaic we can just throw john out the window when using him as an authority on anything. His thinking was always too Greek for me anyway. it is bad enough to have to read a Greek name every time you discuss the topic of "jesus". By now we all know it would have been more like "Joshua" in English, and Yeshua in his own. Although, that dang wikipedia seems to think his own was Aramaic as well. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aramaic_of_Jesus#Golgotha ?
Now, I have no problem with you disputing the whole Wikipedia article on Jesus mother tongue being Armaic. Please quote , though, your sources for the Armaic words not being Aramaic. Oh, and Just to show I have a sense of humor, I do not think when they say the mother tongue, means the speakers are mothers. Just like I have a hard time believing the people who spoke in the hebrew tongue were necessarily speaking Hebrew.
Jews didn't transliterate the new testament, or translate it.
Constantine hated them. Wouldn't even let easter be on the passover, he detested them so much. On that fact alone, I am not surprised the errors occurred when transliterating from Aramaic; and from greek to copy greek, and someone think, ooh let me put here that was Hebrew, because it isn't Greek to me...and Jesus was a Jew! Someone would think it was Hebrew down the line. Even the handful of words that are left Aramaic in the New Testament. No good christian at the time would be caught dead with a Hebrew. It was more likely the Hebrew would be dead. But beyond that, remember the new Testament is just a handfull of letters. Luke was writing to theophilus, whoever that is. If he realized his letter was going to become the bible he might not have blown his stories up so high. So much that he tells Paul's conversion 3 times in the second letter to Theophilus, (now a book in the bible called acts, thanks Constantine)
and all 3 stories are completely different.

So back to the OP, Did Yeshua call out to HIS god? Was his god YaHWeH.. or EL? and was he forsaken? Who let him down?
and did he have a twin? Thomas Didymus? Didymus is supposedly Greek for twin. Thomas is also translated as twin from an Aramaic word. I've seen it elsewhere, but it is also on that Wikipedia site. it looks like I am gonnna have to get a more specific Aramaic source, because spin you already said several times not to trust you. :huh:

Pilate

It is plain: it is a Chaldee word.
It needs no more explaining. If you want to learn read my previous postings.

Toto

Pilate, this is getting us nowhere.

Do you speak Chaldean?

Without forcing the reader to go through all of your previous posts, what is your basis for saying that it is Chaldee? Thayer's Greek English Lexicon? Why is a Greek English lexicon the ultimate authority on Aramaic or Hebrew? Can you show that this authority trumps other authority?

Pilate

:down: Here is another condscending session. One is assuming the role of a guru and treating the other a "the student."
By the way, Has the guru ever admitted publicly that he has been wrong? Does the guru know what this means "παντες γάÏ? ημαÏ?τον"?

Pilate

Can you disqualify the Thayer's dictionary and prove it faulty? And which dictionary has the correct definition for that word?

Toto

Pilate - if you are using it as an authority, you have to show that it is accurate.

From an Amazon review from the link above:

Pilate

True: there are Greek English dictionaries that have more words than Thayer's.
To inform you: I have now the Big Liddel & Scott Dictionary installed in my computer, BUT it does not have the particular word that we are talking about: Bhthesda.
Bigger, more encompassing does not mean better if it does not have what I need.
The Thayer's has all the New Testament words, and that is what I need most of the time.
Now the words of the New Testament have not changed. and the translation of 99% of those words is that same. Perhaps in the past 50 years we have discovered shades or variation of new meanings for 1% of the words.
This is not like buying a computer every three years, where technology changes and becomes obsolete.
What we are focused here is the meaning of a single word. First you can show me that Danker's Dictionary has a different definition from Thayer's.
Then we can talk, which one is more correct.
(You noticed, I did not make any derogatory statements to your challenge- Respect breeds respect. Why can't we have this kind of exhanges all the time? That's another subject.)

cass256

yes, I have to agree again, absent some major authority, I found :
Bhqesda
Bethesda
bay-thes-dah'
of Chaldee origin (compare borboroV - borboros 1004 and checed 2617); house of kindness; Beth-esda, a pool in Jerusalem:--Bethesda

I'm afraid to say it might be srongs again. ( I have to say, once again, I do not think john would know Hebrew if it bit him in the B....ethesda. )

Why would someone form a Lexicon, Thayers (or strongs) and be so misguided in not checking first that the word is Hebrew, when it is known to be quoted in the Bible as being Hebrew? More likely they saw john's name and said "typical Greek" doesn't know a Hebrew word from an Aramaic, chaldean, or pidgeon poop. and then they labeled it according to what facts they had.
Where is their link to the Hebrew word?

cass256

Oh Toto, how many people tell you there's no place like home? You can not use an Amazon review to disprove a word in a lexicon. 125.00 $$$$????

If you buy the recommended book and find Bethesda is straight from Hebrew, or any contradiction.. then you would have room to talk. You may need to know Greek, so how useful is the one mentioned? With all the authority on this thread where is the quote from a lexicon that contradicts? I would be very interested, and will throw my whole Strong's concordance out the window.



(then I'd pick it back up again on my way back from work )