Dark Virtue

Thanks IBIH, I appreciate the honesty.

Question...how do you know that you are walking the correct Christian path?

These other Christians pray to God for guidance and you see where they are. You said yourself, we're talking about 95% of Christians.

How do you know YOUR beliefs are correct?

Sai

As I pointed out, you make things up and then announce that you are baffled by them. Perhaps you could best explain why you confuse yourself this way.

arnoldo

Miltary/political power played a role when Nebby exiled the Jews to Babylon and also when Cyrus allowed the Jews to return. Military/political power also played a role when the Greeks were defeated by the Maccabees and later when the jews were defeated by the Romans. Thus, it should come as no surpirse that military/political power played a role in the establishment of Israel in 1948. It is a false dilema to imply that in order for a prophetic event to occur towards Israel it must be entirely supernatural, otherwise it is not prophetic.

arnoldo

But the future state will.

IBelieveInHymn

I try to be honest and fair.

Because I'm trying my hardest to obey the commandments of God. What good is being a Christian if I disobey the Holy Father?

I cannot answer for these other Christians. If they don't know any better, then maybe God will see they are rewarded. But those who DO know better will not get that chance.

Because I'm fully aware of the laws and I try to live accordingly. How can you claim I am wrong if I'm obeying the laws of God?

Some of you are acting like I'm re-inventing Christianity. When all I'm doing is following what the bible says to do, and not to do.

spamandham

I don't know if you're trying to make this difficult, or if you really just don't get it. I take your god ideas as seriously as (I imagine) you take leprechaun ideas. Just as I'm guessing you have no qualms partaking of Lucky Charms in spite of their promotion of the idea of leprechauns, I have no qualms partaking of religious holidays, or language that refers to religious ideas.

What would be baffling, would be if I simultaneously took your religious ideas seriously and altered my behavior as a result, and yet also believed those ideas were nothing but mythology and superstition.

Of course it's ok. Why would you expect me to act like a religious ascetic?

A. I don't know that what you're saying is true. I'm going to bet it isn't.

B. I wouldn't care even if it were, as the modern celebrations do not involve killing children.

Well, maybe not the first. Others here tend to beat me to the punch.

IBelieveInHymn

This was discussed yesterday.

The Jewish people possessed Canaan continuously from about 1490 B.C until the Assyrian and Babylonian captivities 722 and 597 B.C. 70 years later some 000's of the children of Judah and Benjamin returned to Jerusalem and Judah under Ezra and Nehemiah. They multiplied and regained much of the old territory but became a vassal state under Persia, then Greece and finally Rome. In the days of the life of our Lord Jesus Christ, Herod the Great, appointed by Rome, was King of Judaea.

In promising Canaan, God solemnly told the children of Israel that Canaan belonged to Him, and they were but covenanted tenants in the land, a tenancy that would last only for as long as they remained obedient to God.

If however, they chose to depart from God, their tenancy would be terminated and God would drive them from the land just as He had previously driven the Canaanites from the land. (Leviticus 18-24/30; 25-23; Exodus 23-20/33; Deuteronomy 28).

spamandham

Because you keep saying you're baffled.

Johnny Skeptic

But neither of those events has happened. Regarding item 1, consider the following Scriptures:

Genesis 17:1-8

1. And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the Lord appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

2. And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.

3. And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying,

4. As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.

5. Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

6. And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.

7. And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

8. And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

Obviously, the partition of Palestine in 1948 was not a fulfillment of Bible prophecy since verse 8 says "all of the land of Canaan." From 1948 through today, the Jews have not occupied and/or controlled anywhere near all of the land of Canaan, and certainly not as an everlasting possession since there is not any historical evidence that Hebrews have ever occupied all of the land of Canaan.

The words "everlasting possession" surely indicated to ancient Hebrews that their descendants would have all of Canaan as an everlasting possession for many generations in this life, certain not in a future life. If these are the end times, there will not be enough time for Jews to have Canaan as a possession for many generations, especially since Jews must have "all" of the land of Canaan in order to fulfill Genesis 17:8.

Regarding item 2, the Euphrates River is far from being dried up, and even if it does eventually dry up, Muslims also believe that it will dry up.

How do you know what the writer of the book of Revelation meant by "dried up"?

Are you aware the Ezekiel falsely said that God would give Egypt to Nebuchadnezzar as a compensation for his failure to defeat Tyre?

Are you aware the Ezekiel (Ezekiel chapter 26) predicted that Nebuchadnezzar would defeat Tyre? The "many nations" part of the chapter was probably added after it became obvious that Nebuchadnezzar would not defeat Tyre. Ezekiel referred to Nebuchadnezzar as "a king of kings," and said that he would tear down Tyre's towers and go down its streets, all indicating that Ezekiel believed that Nebuchadnezar would defeat Tyre.

Are you aware that the writer of Genesis predicted that a global flood would occur, and that a global flood did not occur?

The vague and confusing nature of Bible prophecies is one of the very best reasons why people should reject the Bible. The Bible says that God is not the author of confusion, and yet Christians themselves have never had a unified belief system regarding Bible prophecy and many other issues. It would be quite simple for a God to predict when and where a natural disaster would occur, month, day, and year. A prediction like that would be difficult to dispute if it came true. Since a God did not inspire the Bible, that explains why the Bible does not contain any prophecies of the quality of the example that I gave.

Johnny Skeptic

Of course, and I did not say otherwise.

This is really quite simple. There is nothing in Jewish history that indicates the involvement of a God. It is certainly reasonably possible that Abraham falsely believed that God made a land promise to him and his descendants, and that that belief, not the fact that God made a land promise to him and his descendants, caused modern Jews and Christians to endorse the Partition of Palestine. That is what would be called a self-fulfilled prophecy, which only takes desire and military power to achieve, and without the involvement or even existence of a God.

The Bible says that Hebrews would get "all" of the land of Canaan as an "everlasting" promise. Today, Hebrews do not have anywhere near all of the land of Canaan, there is no credible evidence that they ever did, or ever will, and the "everlasting promise" cannot even begin until Hebrews have all of the land of Canaan.

Considering the growing economic power of China, India, and Russia, the three largest countries is the world regarding population, and the co-operative treaty between those countries and some other countries, and the growth of Islam, and the diminishing power the U.S. and Britain, who have been the chief allies of the Jews, it is very probable that the Jews will not come anywhere near controlling all of the land of Canaan for at least the next 100 years.

It is embarrassing for you that you have never had reasonable motives why God predicts the future, and why he inspired confusing prophecies when he could easily have inspired prophecies that are difficult to dispute. My thread at http://www.freeratio.org/showthread.php?t=275259 at the General Religious Discussions Forum would be an appropriate place for use to discuss these issues. Please make a post in that thread. No rational person would be unconcerned with the motives of a God. If a God exists, his motives are of the utmost importance. Surely no God, or any other being for that matter, is good merely because he arbitrarily declares through human proxies that he is good.