Freethought & Rationalism Archive

gstafleu · 10-25-2006, 05:51 AM

It may be best if I apologize in advance for this posting. But I'm reading this book about Revelation (A History of the End of the World (or via: amazon.co.uk), by Jonathan Kirsch), and it all of a sudden occurred to me that a mistranslation has taken place. It is in Rev 10, in the section the NKJV labels as "John eats the little book." Eats the little book? As in "If the world doesn't end in 10 days I'll eat my little book"? Even for a dedicated apocalypsist it seems a bit much that he would actually do that, wouldn't he go for some juicy fried Beast instead?

So here is my re-translation of Rev 10:9, which I think explains better what is going on here:

Quote:

So I went to the angel and said to her, “Give me a little nookie.” And she said to me, “Take and eat it; and it will make your stomach bitter, but it will be as sweet as honey in your mouth.”

I've always thought of Revelation as a lot of hanky panky business.

Gerard

Toto · 10-25-2006, 11:05 AM

NIV calls Rev 10 The Angel and the Little Scroll.

Explained here as a reference to Ezekiel

Quote:

John is commanded to eat the book much in the same way Ezekiel was commanded to eat the scroll or book almost 700 years earlier. The message was one of judgment on the children of Israel (Ezk 2; 3, 10). Israel, and Jerusalem was about to be destroyed by the Babylonian armies. Ezekiel, beholding the “Glory of the Lord” was told to proclaim the Lord’s message to a disobedient people. When Ezekiel ate the scroll it was sweet in his mouth.

Ezk 2 (Young's Literal Translation):

Quote:

8 `And thou, son of man, hear that which I am speaking unto thee: Thou art not rebellious like the rebellious house, open thy mouth, and eat that which I am giving unto thee.'

9 And I look, and lo, a hand [is] sent forth unto me, and lo, in it a roll of a book,

10 and He spreadeth it before me, and it is written in front and behind, and written on it [are] lamentations, and mourning, and wo!

Ezekiel 3
1 And He saith unto me, `Son of man, that which thou findest eat, eat this roll, and go, speak unto the house of Israel.'

2 And I open my mouth, and He causeth me to eat this roll.

3 And He saith unto me, `Son of man, thy belly thou dost feed, and thy bowels thou dost fill with this roll that I am giving unto thee;' and I eat it, and it is in my mouth as honey for sweetness.

Nothing there about bitterness in the stomach, however.

gstafleu · 10-25-2006, 11:52 AM

The Greek word used seems to be βιβλαριδιον. Were there books in those days, in the sense of things with leaves, or was everything still scrolls?

It is an interesting passage, here is the whole thing (NIV):

Quote:

1Then I saw another mighty angel coming down from heaven. He was robed in a cloud, with a rainbow above his head; his face was like the sun, and his legs were like fiery pillars. 2He was holding a little scroll, which lay open in his hand. He planted his right foot on the sea and his left foot on the land, 3and he gave a loud shout like the roar of a lion. When he shouted, the voices of the seven thunders spoke. 4And when the seven thunders spoke, I was about to write; but I heard a voice from heaven say, "Seal up what the seven thunders have said and do not write it down."

5Then the angel I had seen standing on the sea and on the land raised his right hand to heaven. 6And he swore by him who lives for ever and ever, who created the heavens and all that is in them, the earth and all that is in it, and the sea and all that is in it, and said, "There will be no more delay! 7But in the days when the seventh angel is about to sound his trumpet, the mystery of God will be accomplished, just as he announced to his servants the prophets."

8Then the voice that I had heard from heaven spoke to me once more: "Go, take the scroll that lies open in the hand of the angel who is standing on the sea and on the land."

9So I went to the angel and asked him to give me the little scroll. He said to me, "Take it and eat it. It will turn your stomach sour, but in your mouth it will be as sweet as honey." 10I took the little scroll from the angel's hand and ate it. It tasted as sweet as honey in my mouth, but when I had eaten it, my stomach turned sour. 11Then I was told, "You must prophesy again about many peoples, nations, languages and kings."

So he first hears seven thunders speak, but is not allowed to write about it. Rather, he gets handed a booklet (the "official" version, early spin?). FTTB my reading on "eat" is that it means "read". It is tough to take, so it lies heavy on the stomach. But he is supposed to go and prophesy it, and when he does that things will turn out well, the words he will be speaking (taking into his mouth) will be like honey.

gstafleu · 10-25-2006, 04:37 PM

It happens that parts that make the goings-on seem undignified, at least in the eyes of the copying scribe, get left out in the copying process. This might help us understand a bit better what is going on.

We see in V2 that the angel puts his left foot on the land and his right foot on the sea. A foot on the land is fine, but on the sea? That is worse than building your house on the sand. So clearly the angel keeled over and landed in the sea with a resounding splash. This caused him to utter some choice words, recorded in V3 as "seven thunders."

These words wore probably not as seemly as one could hope. So either the angel told John then and there that if he even thought of publishing them he would land in that fiery pit with which he was so familiar. Or else John did actually write them down, and a discerning scribe later removed them, inserting the verse about "Hey John! Seal it up, will you!" instead.

So anyway, the dripping angel gets up and raises his fist towards heaven (V5) to express his displeasure at the rather unintelligent design where the sea wouldn't hold his weight. The book or scroll he was carrying has also gotten quite soggy, and is now useless. So he gives it to John, mumbling "by now you might as well eat it rather than read it."

The book is soaked with salty seawater, hence John's upset stomach after eating it. He of course throws it up again, which our dainty copyist decides to euphemistically transcribe as "honey in his mouth," much like the idea of the "honey wagon" which comes along to empty your sceptic tank.

I'm glad I finally could make some sense of this chapter.

Gerard

10-25-2006, 04:37 PM	#4
gstafleu Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: London, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,719	Some further exegesis It happens that parts that make the goings-on seem undignified, at least in the eyes of the copying scribe, get left out in the copying process. This might help us understand a bit better what is going on. We see in V2 that the angel puts his left foot on the land and his right foot on the sea. A foot on the land is fine, but on the sea? That is worse than building your house on the sand. So clearly the angel keeled over and landed in the sea with a resounding splash. This caused him to utter some choice words, recorded in V3 as "seven thunders." These words wore probably not as seemly as one could hope. So either the angel told John then and there that if he even thought of publishing them he would land in that fiery pit with which he was so familiar. Or else John did actually write them down, and a discerning scribe later removed them, inserting the verse about "Hey John! Seal it up, will you!" instead. So anyway, the dripping angel gets up and raises his fist towards heaven (V5) to express his displeasure at the rather unintelligent design where the sea wouldn't hold his weight. The book or scroll he was carrying has also gotten quite soggy, and is now useless. So he gives it to John, mumbling "by now you might as well eat it rather than read it." The book is soaked with salty seawater, hence John's upset stomach after eating it. He of course throws it up again, which our dainty copyist decides to euphemistically transcribe as "honey in his mouth," much like the idea of the "honey wagon" which comes along to empty your sceptic tank. I'm glad I finally could make some sense of this chapter. Gerard

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