Jeffrey Gibson

I've completed what I hope is the penultimate draft of a long article on the the Matthean and Lukan story of Jesus' Wilderness "temptation".

For those who might be interested in seeing it, it's available here

You will, however, have to be a member of my "J.B. Gibson Writings" group to access it (sorry, I don't have an open hosting site). To join, go here:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JBGibsonWritings/

and follow the instructions.

As I mentioned, the article is a penultimate draft. I still have to proof it. There are holes in the foot notes, etc.

Substantive (and informed) comments and criticisms of the article (and additional bibliographic suggestions) are welcome.

Comments on the article's presuppositions -- i.e. that there was an HJ, that Christianity existed before Constantine -- are not. So Pete Brown, aaaa what's your name, Pat Cleaver, Chilli etc., and all (other) ex fundies with axes to grind, please don't use this thread to ride your hobby horses.

Jeffrey

juergen

Thank you!

aa5874

Is this censorship? Do the rules allow a poster to virtually ban others from giving an opinion on a thread, even identifying them by their used name?

Perhaps soon only HJers will be allowed to post here.

Flagg

What is an HJer? Sorry

Jeffrey Gibson

If, after you read the article, you really think you can offer an informed opinion (one based on actual familiarity with Koine and with the primary sources and the secondary literature discussed within it) on my argument, rather than a derailing (and rule forbidden) jab at how stupid people are for believing in an HJ, or another of your incessant and inaccurate and wholly misinformed comments about how the whole of the NT, let alone Luke, says Jesus is the son of a ghost, then by all means do so.

Jeffrey

Jeffrey Gibson

Some who accepts the historicity of Jesus of Nazerth.

Please note that my article is an analysis of, and an argument about, what texts say. The truth or falsity of what these texts say, let alone whether the figure they speak of actually existed, is not at issue.

Jeffrey

aa5874

In your article on the Temptation of Jesus, you claim you presuppose that Jesus was an HJ, but looking at Matthew 4.8-12, and other passages, perhaps you can write what they state in Koine, there seems to be a massive problem.

For example, Matthew 4.8-12[ KJV] Now, the paasages contain the entities called the Devil, Jesus, Satan, the Lord thy God and angels.

Now, if as you claim you presupposed that Jesus was an historical figure, you must have also presupposed the Devil or Satan was a figure of history who was actually liviing in some wilderness who was with the historical Jesus on some kind of high mountain, I suppose.

And the Lord thy God, did you or did you not presuppose that this entity was a figure of history? The Lord thy God is supposed to be the father of the presupposed HJ.

And what about the angels? They ministered unto the presupposed HJ.

I think it would be fair if you presupposed that the angels are figures of history, too, so that all the characters, Jesus [HJ], the Devil [HD], Satan [HS], the Lord thy God [HG] and the angels [HA] operate within the same realm, within the realm of humanity with respect to the Temptation.

I see seroius problems if you only presupposed Jesus was HJ.

Don't you think it is a bit difficult dealing with supernatural or spiritual beings as they interact with another being whose origin is doubtful and then presuppose that this unknown figure was really human?

Newfie

Like many incidents in the Bible, who witnessed this entire process in order for the gospel writers to report it? Did Jesus have company or did he relate the story to others himself. If he did, how could he convince others that he did not hallucinate the whole thing. Going without food for a long time in the desert could mess with anyone’s mind, right?

Ronin

That very problem starts with Genesis 1:1, Newfie.

aa5874

If it is presupposed that the devil was a real human being, then this presupposed real human devil could have told some of the real disciples, perhaps Judas, and the chief priests what actually happened during the Temptation.

And if the story from HD matches HJ, then perhaps HJ was not hallucinating at all, but simply made up the story about the Temptation and told HD what to say.

And there are many other options.