Ben C Smith

Since Amaleq13 made it easy on me on the gospel dating thread by linking to a post by Andrew Criddle, I decided to focus in exclusively, for now, on what Papias might have meant by the logia that he attributes to the disciple Matthew instead of tackling the whole issue of which gospel materials he might have had in mind.

Please note: This thread is not about the authenticity of the Papian references in Eusebius and other authors. This is strictly about what is meant by logia.

I used to subscribe to the view that Papias was attributing a sayings gospel to Matthew when he writes:

Ματθαιος μεν ουν Εβραιδι διαλεκτω τα λογια συνεταξατο, ηρμηνευσεν δ αυτα ως ην δυνατος εκαστος.

Matthew therefore in the Hebrew dialect ordered together the oracles, and each one interpreted them as he was able.

I took logia to mean sayings, and pretty much sayings only, and I therefore took this Papian fragment as possible evidence for the Q document.

However, there are problems with assuming that logia are strictly (or even mostly) sayings.

First, though, a couple of possible red herrings. It has been argued that Romans 3.2 uses logia to mean the entire written Old Testament (which consists, of course, of both sayings and stories); I am not entirely convinced of that, at least not enough to use this as indisputable evidence. Acts 7.38 seems to equate the logia with the sayings of God on Sinai (that is, the Ten Commandments and other laws). This could be the meaning here in Romans 3.2, that the Jews were entrusted with the divine laws, which were, in the OT narrative, literal utterances by the deity to Moses. So it is at least possible, I think, from an a priori point of view that Papias would have in mind the sayings of the Lord during his earthly tenure.

Furthermore, even if the entire OT is meant in passages such as Romans 3.2, it could be that the OT is meant as divinely uttered; thus, even though the OT contains both sayings and stories, it is all considered the word of God; in such a case the NT materials would be meant only if they were already seen by this time as the word of the Lord in the sense of divine inspiration. If not, then the oracles may indeed include stories, but only such stories as the Lord himself told (that is, the parables), which would fit in with my former way of understanding the logia, not with my current way. Either of these options may be the case; but I do not think the case is easy to make along these particular lines.

Other evidence is more convincing, and the footnote that Andrew quoted on that other post brings some of it up.

But, for me, it is the usage of Papias himself that is the most convincing. The title of his book is the Exegesis of the Lordly Oracles, yet his extant fragments include stories (such as the death of Judas) along with sayings (such as the dominical teaching on fertility in the millennial period). Now, there is some wriggle room here; it is possible that his work was indeed a commentary on the sayings but included, as comments, certain stories. But the next point, I think, offers no such wriggle room, for Papias writes:

Μαρκος μεν ερμηνευτης �*ετρου γενομενος, οσα εμνημονευσεν ακριβως εγραψεν, ου μεντοι ταξει, τα υπο του κυριου η λεχθεντα η πραχθεντα. ουτε γαρ ηκουσεν του κυριου ουτε παρηκολουθησεν αυτω, υστερον δε, ως εφην, �*ετρω, ος προς τας χρειας εποιειτο τας διδασκαλιας, αλλ ουχ ωσπερ συνταξιν των κυριακων ποιουμενος λογιων, ωστε ουδεν ημαρτεν Μαρκος ουτως ενια γραψας ως απεμνημοσευσεν. ενος γαρ εποιησατο προνοιαν, του μηδεν ων ηκουσεν παραλιπειν η ψευσασθαι τι εν αυτοις.

Mark, who had become the interpreter of Peter, wrote accurately, yet not in order, as many things as he remembered of the things either said or done by the Lord. For he neither heard the Lord nor followed him, but later, as I said, Peter, who would make the teachings to the needs, but not making them as an ordering together of the lordly oracles, so that Mark did not sin having thus written certain things as he remembered them. For he made one provision, to leave out nothing of the things that he heard or falsify anything in them.

It is here evident that the teaching of Peter equals, for Papias, the lordly oracles, which must therefore include things both said and done by the Lord. The criticism of Mark is that it is not a syntaxis, or ordering together, of the oracles. (I think that a lot of people on this board also misinterpret what order means when used of an ancient book. But that point will have to wait a while.) Which implies that it is a record of the oracles, just not a record of them that happens to be in order (in the ancient bookmaking sense).

In Against Heresies 1.8.1 Irenaeus uses this term (lordly oracles) in parallel with a threefold set, namely the parables of the Lord, the sayings of the prophets, and the words of the apostles. Had he stopped at the parables of the Lord we would have evidence of logia as sayings only. But he did not.

To conclude, then, logia are sayings in a sense, but they are not necessarily limited to oral sayings; they may be written. And they may be sayings about deeds. The term oracles as Papias himself uses it includes both the sayings and the deeds of the Lord. Therefore, to say that Papias does not know our gospel of Matthew because he characterizes it as logia misses the mark; logia can be a record of sayings and deeds, just as our gospel of Matthew is, in the main. There may be other reasons not to think that Papias knows our gospel of Matthew (the difference between Hebrew and Greek being a great one), but this is not one of them.

Ben.

Gamera

Ben, doesn't this turn as much on the meaning of "exegesis" as the term "logia" in the phrase Logion Kyriakon Exegesis?

As it developed later in patristic thought, the exegetical method was restricted to sacred texts. It then expanded to a hermeneutical method that applied to any text. And then it expanded to a semiological/esptomological method applied to any phenomena, including the world around us.

The issue, as I see it, is what sort of texts and textual elements were subject to "exegesis" in Papias' time. Was exegesis limited to interpreting sayings, or could it apply equally to the meaning of narratives. But understanding what the scope of what he meant by exegesis, we can determine the nature of the logia it applied to.

I don't know if Papias is drawing more on Judaic traditions or Hellenic traditions in his understanding of the term, but I suspect that's something that is subject to an historical study relating to the semantic field of the word in the first and second century.

Ben C Smith

I honestly do not know the entire semantic range of the Greek term exegesis. I simply translate it as interpretation or transliterate it as exegesis. But the background to the term and what it might mean for what the logia are is unknown to me. I agree it would be a fruitful line of study.

Ben.

mountainman

Hi Ben,

But doesn't the Logos go back at least
as far as Heraclitus (via Philo?). When did it
get "absorbed" into "early christianity"?


Best wishes,


Pete Brown

Toto

This isn't about the Logos, although the words have the same root.

Logos = word. Logion = saying.

Julian

Hmmm, I shall ponder this. I do have a few questions, though.

1) Isn't logion a curious term to use? We see memoirs and gospel in a number of places in early texts but not so much logion. Is this a reasonably accurate observation would you say?

2) Would it seems that logion is an early term and the gospel came later?

I think that someone once made a list of all early mentions or references to the gospels. If we could locate such a list then we could look at the term and determine its frequency and context. That may involve the catena, again. :/

Another issue would be how much narrative could be allowed, using my current definition of logion, before it would be consider a not-logion. Even GThomas has some narrative, but it is extremely sparse.

Also, doesn't oracle imply an announcement, i.e. a saying? The saying could be placed within context such as narrative, of course, within limits (one would assume) but, clearly, the canonical gospels have tons of pure narrative. Surely, that would be pushing the term logion, don't you think?

I also don't think that the sayings would have to come from the lord. I see nothing in logion that implies that. Surely, any saying would qualify, otherwise, why qualify the noun with kurios? Irenaeus seems to be on the side of my interpretation since he includes only sayings.

My thinking goes like this: We know that there were early gospels that were mostly sayings only. I suspect that these were the earliest gospels, unless one could explain the apparent textual devolution if placed later, and we have an early mention of logia. Why not just draw the most obvious and simple conclusion, that the term logia refers to exactly what it says. It smacks a bit of special pleading. However, I will ponder this some more and not be hasty, especially because the Papias text is obviously complicated in terms of meaning.

Julian

Ben C Smith

I do not think it is particularly curious, but of course such an impression or nonimpression of curiosity would be a subjective judgment.

Polycarp uses it in Philippians 7.1:

For everyone who shall not confess that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is antichrist; and whoever shall not confess the testimony of the cross is of the devil, and whoever shall pervert the oracles of the Lord to his own lusts and say that there is neither resurrection nor judgment, that man is the firstborn of Satan.

I certainly agree it is a rarer term than, say, gospel for the NT materials. But I think it is comprehensible in its own right.

Both terms are more ancient than the gospel materials themselves, so I perceive that you are asking which term was applied to gospel materials first. And that is a pretty complicated question. Given that we do not exactly know the date of the Didache, it is uncertain, IMHO.

Maybe, but it would be important to sort out those instances of gospel where it means something as Paul intends it from those instances where it definitely means a written work (as in the Didache and in Justin).

This is where the usage as we find it in Papias is important. Papias appears to apply the term to whatever he is saying Mark wrote, a text that he also describes as containing both the words and the deeds of the Lord.

Absolutely, in its original sense.

No, since we are not limited to the original sense of any term. Words take on extended meanings.

Agreed.

Indeed. So, on your reading of logia, what is going on when Papias implies that Mark wrote down the dominical oracles, but not in order, and included both sayings of and deeds of the Lord?

Then I do not understand your interpretation. Irenaeus includes the words of the apostles under the term dominical oracles. Does this not imply that the oracles are not restricted to logia uttered by the Lord but probably also include logia uttered (or written) about the Lord? And if logia, even lordly logia, can be about the Lord, what is to say that the logia that Papias attributes to Matthew are not also about the Lord, and include both sayings and deeds?

Certainly. The gospel of Thomas is excellent evidence of this.

I used to suspect as much, too, but the planks of my platform were ripped away one by one. Now it remains a possibility for me, but not one with any clear evidence one way or another.

If this early mention of logia is Papias, then it is also Papias who sinks the conclusion. He says that Mark wrote both about what the Lord did and about what the Lord said, but did not set the logia down in order. Unless he is suddenly, out of the blue, focusing on the order of the sayings only in a text that must include a good deal of narrative, he is equating logia with what the Lord said and did. Compare:

Mark... wrote accurately, yet not in order, as many things as he remembered of the things either said or done by the Lord.

Peter... [was] not giving [his teachings] as an ordering together of the lordly oracles, so that Mark did not sin having thus written certain things as he remembered them.

Papias is explaining how Mark came to write things not in order: Peter taught things not in order. If the things in both parts of this parallelism are not the same things (the former being words and deeds and the latter being words only), then the explanation is incomplete. Thus the lordly oracles are parallel to the things either said or done by the Lord.

Ben.

Jeffrey Gibson

λόγος means far more than "word". And "word" is actually one of its secondary senses. See below.

And as to λόγιον, see LSJ:

Quote:

λόγιον, τό, oracle, esp. one preserved from antiquity, Hdt.4.178, 203, 8.60.γ´, Plu.Thes.26, Lys.22: more freq. in pl., oracles, Hdt.1.64, 8.62, 141, E.Heracl.405, Ar.Eq.120, al., Plu.Fab.4, Marc.3: distd. fr. χρησμοί, Th.2.8 (the former being prose, the latter verse, acc. to Sch., but this distn. does not hold), cf. Plu.Pel.20, Nic.13, 2.412c. 2. τὰ λ. Κυρίου the sayings of the Lord, LxxPs.11(12).6, cf. Act.Ap.7.38, Ep.Rom.3.2, 1Ep.Pet.4.11. II. τὸ λ. τῶν κρίσεων the oracular breastplate worn by the Jewish High-Priest, LxxEx.28.26(30), cf. Ph.2.154; τὰ λόγια Aristeas 158.

and BDGA:

Quote:

λόγιον, ου, τό (Eur., Hdt.+, mostly of short sayings originating fr. a divinity: Hdt. 8, 60, 3; Thu. 2, 8, 2; Polyb. 3, 112, 8; 8, 30, 6; Diod. S. 2, 14, 3; 2, 26, 9; 4, 65, 3 al.; Aelian, V.H. 2, 41. Likew. LXX [TWManson, Goguel-Festschr. ’50, 142f]; Ep. Arist. 177; Philo, Congr. Erud. Grat. 134, Fuga 60, Mos. 2, 262, Praem. 1, Vi. Cont. 25; Jos., Bell. 6, 311)a saying, in our lit. only pl. (as also predom. in secular wr.); of the revelations received by Moses λόγια ζῶντα Ac 7:38. Of God’s promises to the Jews Ro 3:2 (JWDoeve, Studia Paulina [JdeZwaan-Festschr.] ’53, 111-23). Of words fr. Scripture gener. (as Plut., Fab. 4, 5 of words fr. the Sibylline books): τὰ λόγια τοῦ θεοῦ (LXX) Hb 5:12.—1 Cl 13:4; 19:1; 53:1. τὰ λ. τῆς παιδείας τοῦ θεοῦ the oracles of God’s teaching 62:3. Also of NT sayings 2 Cl 13:3 (cf. vs. 4). Likew. τὰ λόγια τοῦ κυρίου the sayings of the Lord (Jesus; Marinus, Vi. Procli 26 p. 163, 50 Boiss. τὰ Ὀρφ�*ως λόγια) Pol 7:1 (cf. Clem. Alex., Quis Div. Salv. 3, 1; Irenaeus I Praef. 1; Papias in Euseb., H.E. 3, 39, 1=Geb., Harn., Zahn, Papias 2:15, 16; PNepper-Christensen, Mt ein Judenchristliches Evangelium? ’58, 37-56). Of the utterances of those Christians gifted w. the charisma of the word 1 Pt 4:11.—GerhKittel, TW IV 140-5. M-M.*

One should never fall for the etymological fallacy, even if you know what the root is.

Jeffrey

LSJ entry on λόγος

Quote:

λόγος, ὁ, verbal noun of λ�*γω (b), with senses corresponding to λ�*γω (b) ii and iii (on the various senses of the word v. Theo Sm.pp.72, 73 H., An.Ox.4.327): common in all periods in Prose and Verse, exc. Epic, in which it is found in signf. derived from λ�*γω (b) iii, cf. infr. vi. 1a: I. computation, reckoning (cf. λ�*γω (b)ii). 1. account of money handled, σανίδες εἰς ἃς τὸν λ. ἀναγράφομεν IG12.374.191; ἐδίδοσαν τὸν λ. ib. 232.2; λ. δώσεις τῶν μετεχείρισας χρημάτων Hdt.3.142, cf. 143; οὔτε χρήματα διαχειρίσας τῆς πόλεως δίδωμι λ. αὐτῶν οὔτε ἀρχὴν ἄρξας οὐδεμίαν εὐθύνας ὑπ�*χω νῦν αὐτῆς Lys.24.26; λ. ἀπενεγκεῖν Arist.Ath.54.1; ἐν ταῖς εὐθύναις τοῦ τοιούτου λ. ὑπεχ�*τω Pl.Lg.774b; τὸν τῶν χρημάτων λ. παρὰ τούτων λαμβάνειν D.8.47; ἀδικήματα εἰς ἀργυρίου λ. ἀνήκοντα Din.1.60; συνᾶραι λόγον μετά τινος settle accounts with, Ev.Matt.18.23, etc.; δεύτεροι λ. a second audit, Cod.Just.1.4.26.1; ὁ τραπεζιτικὸς λ. banking account, Theo Sm.p.73 H.: metaph., οὐκ ἂν πριαίμην οὐδενὸς λ. βροτόν εἰ δ�* τις ἐνχειρήσει, ἕξι τὸν λόγον πρὸς ‹?τὸν Θεόν› SEG30.1546 (iv/v a.d.); also of other things than money, οἰνικὸς λ. Stud.Pal.20.85 ii 1, λ. κριθῆς PCair.Zen.464.1 (iii b.c.) S.Aj.477. b. public accounts, i.e. branch of treasury, ἴδιος λ., in Egypt, OGI188.2, 189.3, 669.38; also as title of treasurer, ib. 408.4, Str.17.1.12; ὁ ἐπὶ τῶν λ. IPE2.29 A (Panticapaeum); δημόσιος λ., = Lat. fiscus, OGI1669.21 (Egypt, i a.d.), etc. (but later, = aerarium), Cod.Just.1.5.15; also Καίσαρος λ. OGI669.30; κυριακὸς λ. ib. 18. c. ἐκ λόγου, in accounts, brought forward, freq. in papyri, ἐγ λ. λήμματος τοῦ δεκάτου ἔτους PLond.131 (i a.d.); ἐγ λ. τοῦ μηνὸς ἐλοιπογραφήθησαν there were entered as balance from the month’s account, BGU362 vi 9 (iii a.d.); τὸ ἐγ λ. τοῦ Φαμενώθ the balance from Ph., PCair.Zen.333.1 (iii b.c.); ὃ ἔχεις ἐγ λ. the balance you have in hand, ib. 593.12 (iii b.c.): see also ἔκλογος (C). 2. generally, account, reckoning, μὴ φῦναι τὸν ἅπαντα νικᾷ λ. excels the whole account, i.e. is best of all, S.OC1225 (lyr.); δόντας λ. τῶν ἐπόησαν accounting for, i.e. paying the penalty for their doings, Hdt.8.100, ἴ τις δὲ τολμῇ ἀνῦξεν, δώσι Κυρίῳ λόγον BCHsuppl. 8 no 58 (Beroea, iii/iv a.d.); λ. αἰτεῖν Pl.Plt.285e; λ. δοῦναι καὶ δ�*ξασθαι Id.Prt.336c, al.; λαμβάνειν λ. καὶ ἐλ�*γχειν Id.Men.75d; παρασχεῖν τῶν εἰρημ�*νων λ. Id.R.344d; λ. ἀπαιτεῖν D.30.15, cf. Arist.EN1104a3; λ. ὑπ�*χειν, δοῦναι, D.19.95; λ. ἐγγράψαι Id.24.199, al.; λ. ἀποφ�*ρειν τῇ πόλει Aeschin.3.22, cf. Ev.Luc.16.2, Ep.Hebr.13.17; τὸ παράδοξον τῶν συμβεβηκότων ὑπὸ λόγον ἄγειν Plb.15.34.2; λ. ἡ ἐπιστήμη, πολλὰ δ�* ὁ λ. the account is manifold, Plot.6.9.4; ἔχων λόγον τοῦ διὰ τί an account of the cause, Arist.APo.74b27; ἐς λ. τινός on account of, ἐς χρημάτων λ. Th.3.46, cf. Plb.5.89.6, Lxx2Ma.1.14, JRS18.152 (Jerash); λόγῳ c. gen., by way of, Cod.Just.3.2.5, al., εἰς μισθοῦ λ. Plu.2.240d; κατὰ λόγον τοῦ μεγ�*θους if we take into account his size, Arist.HA517b27, Plb.9.20.3; πρὸς ὃν ἡμῖν ὁ λ. Ep.Hebr.4.13, cf. D.Chr.31.123. 3. measure, tale (cf. infr. ii. 1), θάλασσα .. μετρ�*εται ἐς τὸν αὐτὸν λ. ὁκοῖος πρόσθεν Heraclit.31; ψυχῆς ἐστι λ. ἑαυτὸν αὔξυν Id.115; ἐς τούτου (sc. γήραος) λ. οὐ πολλοί τινες ἀπικν�*ονται to the point of old age, Hdt.3.99, cf. 7.9. β´; ὁ ξύμπας λ. the full tale, Th.7.56, cf. Ep.Phil.4.15; κοινῷ λ. νομίσαντα common measure, Pl.Lg.746e; sum, total of expenditure, IG42(1).103.151 (Epid., iv b.c.); ὁ τῆς οὐσίας λ., = Lat. patrimonii modus, Cod.Just.1.5.12.20. 4. esteem, consideration, value put on a person or thing (cf. infr. vi. 2d), οὗ πλείων λ. ἢ τῶν ἄλλων who is of more worth than all the rest, Heraclit.39; βροτῶν λ. οὐκ ἔσχεν αὐδ�*ν᾽ A.Pr.233; οὐ σμικροῦ λ. S.OC1163: freq. in Hdt., Μαρδονίου λ. οὐδεὶς γίνεται 8.102; τῶν ἦν ἐλάχιστος ἀπολλυμ�*νων λ. 4.135, cf. E.Fr.94; περὶ ἐμοῦ οὐδεὶς λ. Ar.Ra.87; λόγου οὐδενὸς γίνεσθαι πρός τινος to be of no account, repute with .., Hdt.1.120, cf. 4.138; λόγου ποιήσασθαί τινα make one of account, Id.1.33; ἐλαχίστου, πλείστου λ. εἶναι, to he highly, lowly esteemed, Id.1.143, 3.146; but also λόγον τινὸς ποιεῖσθαι, like Lat. rationem habere alicujus, make account of, set a value on, Democr.187, etc.: usu. in neg. statements, οὐδ�*να λ. ποιήσασθαί τονος Hdt.1.4, cf. 13, Plb.21.14.9, etc.; λ. ἔχειν Hdt.1.62, 115; λ. ἴσχειν περί τινος Pl.Ti.87c; λ. ἔχειν περὶ τοὺς ποιητάς Lycurg.107; λ. ἔχειν τινός D.18.199, Arist.EN1102b32, Plu.Phil.18 (but also, have the reputation of .., v. infr. vi. 2e), οὐδ᾽ ἐν λόγῳ ἄνδρα τιθείην Tyrt.12.1. ἐν οὐδενὶ λ. ποιήσασθαί τι Hdt.3.50; ἐν οὐδενὶ λ. ἀπώλοντο without regard, Id.9.70; ἐν σμικρῷ λ. εἶναι Pl.R.550a; ὑμεῖς οὔτ᾽ ἐν λ. οὔτ᾽ ἐν ἀριθμῷ Orac.ap.Sch.Theoc.14.48; ἐν ἀνδρῶν λ. [εἶναι] to be reckoned, count as a man, Hdt.3.120; ἐν ἰδιώτεω λόγῳ καὶ ἀτίμου reckoned as .., Eus.Mynd.Fr.59; σεμνὸς εἰς ἀρετῆς λ. καὶ δόξης D.19.142. II. relation, correspondence, proportion, 1. generally, ὑπερτερίης λ. relation (of gold to lead), Thgn.418 = 1164; πρὸς λόγον τοῦ σήματος A.Th.519; κατὰ λόγον προβαίνοντες τιμῶσι in inverse ratio, Hdt.1.134, cf. 7.36; κατὰ λ. τῆς ἀποφορῆς Id.2.109; τἄαλλα κατὰ λ. in like fashion, Hp.VM16, Prog.17: c. gen., κατὰ λ. τῶν πρόσθεν ib. 24; κατὰ λ. τῶν ἡμερῶν Ar.Nu.619; κατὰ λ. τῆς δυνάμεως X.Cyr.8.6.11; ἐλάττω ἢ κατὰ λ. Arist. HA508a2, cf. PA671a18; ἐκ ταύτης ἐγ�*νετο ἐκείνη κατὰ λ. Id.Pol.1257a31; cf. εὔλογος: sts. with ὁ αὐτός added, κατὰ τὸν αὐτὸν λ. τῷ τείχεϊ in fashion like to .., Hdt.1.186; περὶ τῶν νόσων ὁ αὐτὸς λ. analogously, Pl.Tht.158d, cf. Prm.136b, al.; εἰς τὸν αὐτὸν λ. similarly, Id.R.353d; κατὰ τὸν αὐτὸν λ. in the same ratio, IG12.76.8; by parity of reasoning, Pl.Cra.393c, R.610a, al.; ἀνὰ λόγον τινός, τινί, Id.Ti.29c, Alc.2.145d; τοῦτον ἔχει τὸν λ. πρὸς .. ὃν ἡ παιδεία πρὸς τὴν ἀρετήν is related to .. as .., Procl.in Euc.p.20 F., al. 2. Math., ratio, proportion (ὁ κατ᾽ ἀνάλογον λ., λ. τῆς ἀναλογίας Theo Sm.p.73 H.), Pythag.2; ἰσότης λόγων Arist.EN1131a31; λ. ἐστὶ δύο μεγεθῶν ἡ κατὰ πηλικότητα ποιὰ σχ�*σις Euc.5 Def.3; τῶν ἁρμονιῶν τοὺς λ. Arist.Metaph.985b32, cf. 1092b14; λόγοι ἀριθμῶν numerical ratios, Aristox.Harm.p.32 M.; τοὺς φθόγγους ἀναγκαῖον ἐν ἀριθμοῦ λ. λ�*γεσθαι πρὸς ἀλλήλους to be expressed in numerical ratios, Euc.Sect.Can.Proëm.: in Metre, ratio between arsis and thesis, by which the rhythm is defined, Aristox.Harm.p.34 M.; ἐὰν ᾖ ἰσχυροτ�*ρα τοῦ αἰσθητηρίου ἡ κίνησις, λύεται ὁ λ. Arist.de An.424a31; ἀνὰ λόγον analogically, Archyt.2; ἀνὰ λ. μερισθεῖσα [ἡ ψυχή] proportionally, Pl.Ti.37a; so κατὰ λ. Men.319.6; πρὸς λόγον in proportion, Plb.6.30.3, 9.15.3 (but πρὸς λόγον ἐπὶ στενὸν συνάγεται narrows uniformly, Sor.1.9, cf. Diocl.Fr.171); ἐπὶ λόγον IG5(1).1428 (Messene), λόγον ἔχειν πρός τι be in proportion to, Plu.2.147a. 3. Gramm., analogy, rule, τῷ λ. τῶν μετοχικῶν, τῆς συγκοπῆς, by the rule of the participles, of syncope, Choerob.in Theod.1.75 Gaisf., 1.377 H.; εἰπ�* μοι τὸν λ. τοῦ Αἴας Αἴαντος, τουτ�*στι τὸν κανόνα An.Ox.4.328. III. explanation, 1. plea, pretext, ground, ἐκ τίνος λ.; A.Ch.515; ἐξ οὐδενὸς λ. S.Ph.731; ἀπὸ παντὸς λ. Id.OC762; χ�* λ. καλὸς προσῆν Id.Ph.352; σὺν ἀφανεῖ λ. Id.OT657 (lyr., v.l. λόγων); ἐν ἀφανεῖ λ. Antipho 5.59; ἐπὶ τοιούτῳ λ. Hdt.6.124; κατὰ τίνα λ.; on what ground? Pl.R.366b; αὐδὲ πρὸς ἕνα λ. to no purpose, Id.Prt.343d; ἐπὶ τίνι λ.; for what reason? X.HG2.2.19; τὸν λ. τοῦτον this ground of complaint, Aeschin.3.228; τίνι δικαίῳ λ.; what just cause is there? Pl.Grg.512c; τίνι λ.; on what account? Act.Ap.10.29; κατὰ λόγον ἂν �*νεσ ξόμην ὑμῶν reason would that .., ib.18.14; λ. ἔχειν, with personal subject, εἶχον ἄν τινα λ. I (i.e. my conduct) would have admitted of an explanation, Pl.Ap.31b; τὸν ὀρθὸν λ. the true explanation, ib. 34b. b. plea, case, in Law or argument (cf. viii. 1), τὸν ἥττω λ. κρείττω ποιεῖν to make the weaker case prevail, ib. 18b, al., Arist.Rh.1402a24, cf. Ar.Nu.1042 (pl.); personified, ib. 886, al.; ἀμύνεις τῷ τῆς ἡδονῆς λ. Pl.Phlb.38a; ἀνοίσεις τοὺς λ. αὐτῶν πρὸς τὸν θεόν LxxEx.18.19; ἔχειν λ. πρός τινα to have a case, ground of action against .., Act.Ap.19.38. 2. statement of a theory, argument, οὐκ ἐμεῦ ἀλλὰ τοῦ λ. ἀκούσαντας prob. in Heraclit.50; λόγον �*δὲ νόημα ἀμφὶς ἀληθείης discourse and reflection on reality, Parm.8.50; δηλοῖ οὗτος ὁ λ. ὅτι .. Democr.7; οὐκ ἔχει λόγον it is not arguable, i.e. reasonable, S.El.466, Pl.Phd.62d, etc.; ἔχει λ. D.44.32; οὐδεὶς αὐτὰ καταβαλεῖ λ. E.Ba.202; δίκασον .. τὸν λ. ἀκούσας Pl.Lg.696b; personified, φησὶ αὗτος ὁ λ. ib. 714d, cf. Sph.238b, Phld.50a; ὡς ὁ λ. (sc. λ�*γει) Arist.EN1115b12; ὡς ὁ λ. ὁ ὀρθὸς λ�*γει ib. 1138b20, cf. 29; ὁ λ. θ�*λει προσβιβάζειν Phld.Rh.1.41, cf. 1.19 S.; οὐ γὰρ ἂν ἀκούσειε λόγου ἀποτρ�*ποντος Arist.EN1179b27; λ. καθαίρων Aristo Stoic.1.88; λόγου τυγχάνειν to be explained, Phld.Mus.p.77 K.; ὁ τὸν λ. μον ἀκούων my teaching, Ev.Jo.5.24; ὁ προφητικὸς λ., collect., of VT prophecy, 2Ep.Pet.1.19: pl., ἁκόσων λόγους ἤκουσα Heraclit.108; οὐκ ἐπίθετο τοῖς ἐμοῖς λ. Ar.Nu.73; of arguments leading to a conclusion (ὁ λ.), Pl.Cri.46b; τὰ Ἀναξαγόρου βιβλία γ�*μει τούτων τῶν λ. Id.Ap.26d; λ. ἀπὸ τῶν ἀρχῶν, ἐπὶ τὰς ἀρχάς Arist.EN1095a31; συλλογισμός ἐστι λ. ἐν ᾧ τεθ�*ντων τινῶν κτλ. Id.APr.24b18; λ. ἀντίτυπός τε καὶ ἄπορος, of a self-contradictory theory, Plot.6.8.7. b. ὁ περὶ θεῶν λ., title of a discourse by Protagoras, D.L.9.54; ὁ Ἀχιλλεύς λ., name of an argument, ib. 23; ὁ αυξόμενος λ. Plu.2.559b; καταβάλλοντες (sc. λόγοι), title of work by Protagoras, S.E.M.7.60; λ. σοφιστκοί Arist.SE165a34, al.; οἱ μαθηματικοὶ λ. Id.Rh.1417a19, etc.; οἱ ἐξωτερικοὶ λ., current outside the Lyceum, Id.Ph.217b31, al.; Δισσοὶ λ., title of a philosophical treatise ( = Dialex.); Δ. καὶ Δογίνα, name of play of Epicharmus, quibble, argument, personified, Ath.8.338d. c. in Logic, proposition, whether as premiss or conclusion, πρότασίς ἐστι λ. καταφατικὸς ἢ ἀποφατικός τινος κατά τινος Arist.APr.24a16. d. rule, principle, law, as embodying the result of λογισμός, Pi.O.2.22, P.1.35, N.4.31; πείθεσθαι τῷ λ. ὃς ἄν μοι λογιζομ�*νῳ β�*λτιστος φαίνηται Pl.Cri.46b, cf. c; ἡδονὰς τοῖς ὀρθοῖς λ. ἑπομ�*νας obeying right principles, Id.Lg.696c; προαιρ�*σεως [ἀρχὴ] ὄρεξις καὶ λ. ὁ ἕνεκά τινος principle directed to an end, Arist.EN1139a32; of the final cause, ἀρχὴ ὁ λ. ἔν τε τοῖς κατὰ τ�*χνην καὶ ἐν τοῖς φύσει συνεστηκόσιν Id.PA639b15; ἀποδιδόασι τοὺς λ. καὶ τὰς αἰτίας οὗ ποιοῦσι ἑκάστου ib. 18; [τ�*χνη] ἕχις μετὰ λ. ἀληθοῦς ποιητική Id.EN1140a10; ἀρθὸς λ. true principle, right rule, ib. 1144b27, 1147b3, al.; κατὰ λόγον by rule, consistently, ὁ κατὰ λ. ζῶν Pl.Lg.689d, cf. Ti.89d; τὸ κατὰ λ. ζῆν, opp. κατὰ πάθος, Arist.EN1169a5; κατὰ λ. προχωρεῖν according to plan, Plb.1.20.3. 3. law, rule of conduct, ᾧ μάλιστα διηνεκῶς ὁμιλοῦσι λόγῳ Heraclit.72; πολλοὶ λόγον μὴ μαθόντες ζῶσι κατὰ λόγον Democr.53; δεῖ ὑπάρχειν τὸν λ. τὸν καθόλου τοῖς ἄρχουσιν universal principle, Arist.Pol.1286a17; ὁ νόμος .. λ. ὢν ἀπό τινος φρονήσεως καὶ νοῦ Id.EN1180a21; ὀ νόμος .. ἔμψυχος ὢν ἑαυτῷ λ. conscience, Plu.2.780c; τὸν λ. πρόχειρον ἔχειν precept, Phld.Piet.30, cf. 102; ὁ προστακτικὸς τῶν ποιητ�*ων ἢ μὴ λ. κοινός M.Ant.4.4. 4. thesis, hypothesis, provisional ground, ὡς ἂν εἰ λ�*γοι λόγον maintain a thesis, Pl.Prt.344b; ὑποθ�*μενος ἐκάστοτε λ. provisionally assuming a proposition, Id.Phd.100a; τὸν τῆς ὁμοιότητος λ. hypothesis of equivalence, Arist.Cael.296a20. 5. reason, ground, πάντων γινομ�*νων κατὰ τὸν λ. τόνδε Heraclit.1; οὕτω βαθὺν λ. ἔχει Id.45; ἐκ λόγου, opp. μάτην, Leucipp.2; μ�*γιστον σημεῖον αὗτος ὁ λ. Meliss.8; [ἐμπειρία] οὐκ ἔχει λ. οὐδ�*να ὧν προσφ�*ρει has no grounds for .., Pl.Grg.465a; μετὰ λόγου τε καὶ ἐπιστήμης θείας Id.Sph.265c; ἡ μετα λόγου ἀληθὴς δόξα (= ἐπιστήμη) Id.Tht.201c; λόγον ζητοῦσιν ὧν οὐκ ἔστι λ. proof, Arist.Metaph.1011a12; οἱ ἁπάντων ζητοῦντες λ. ἀναιροῦσι λ. Thphr.Metaph.26. 6. formula (wider than definition, but freq. equivalent thereto), term expressing reason, λ. τῆς πολιτείας Pl.R.497c; ψυχῆς οὐσία τε καὶ λ. essential definition, Id.Phdr.245e; ὁ τοῦ δικαίου λ. Id.R.343a; τὸν λ. τῆς οὐσίας ib. 534b, cf. Phd.78d; τὰς πολλὰς ἐπιστήμας ἑνὶ λ. προσειπεῖν Id.Tht.148d; ὁ τῆς οἰκοδομήσεως λ. ἔχει τὸν τῆς οἰκίας Arist.PA646b3; τεθείη ἂν ἴδιον ὄνομα καθ᾽ ἕκαστον τῶν λ. Id.Metaph.1006b5, cf. 1035b4; πᾶς ὁρισμὸς λ. τίς ἐστι Id.Top.102a5; ἐπὶ τῶν σχημάτων λ. κοινός generic definition, Id. de An.414b23; ἀκριβ�*στατος λ. specific definition, Id.Pol.1276b24; πηγῆς λ. ἔχον Ph.2.447; τὸ �*ὸν οὔτε ἀρχῆς ἔχει λ. fulfils the function of .., Plu.2.637d; λ. τῆς μίξεως formula, i.e. ratio (cf. supr. ii) of combination, Arist.PA642a22, cf. Metaph.993a17. 7. reason, law exhibited in the world-process, κατὰ λόγον by law, κόσμῳ πάντα καὶ κατὰ λ. ἔχοντα Pl.R.500c; κατ τὸν ‹αὐτὸν αὖ› λ. by the same law, Epich.170.18; ψυχῆς τὸ πᾶν τόδε διοικούσης κατὰ λ. Plot.2.3.13; esp. in Stoic Philos., the divine order, τὸν τοῦ παντὸς λ. ὃν ἔνιοι εἱμαρμ�*νην καλοῦσιν Zeno Stoic.1.24; τὸ ποιοῦντὸν ἐν [τῇ ὕλῃ] λ. τὸν θεόν ibid., cf. 42; ὁ τοῦ κόσμου λ. Chrysipp.Stoic.2.264; λόγος, = φύδει νόμος, Stoic.2.169; κατὰ τὸν κοινὸν θεοῖς καὶ ἀνθρώποις λ. M.Ant.7.53; ὁ ὀρθὸς λ. διὰ πάντων ἐρχόμενος Chrysipp.Stoic.3.4: so in Plot., τὴν φύσιν εἶναι λόγον, ὃς ποιεῖ λ. ἄλλον γ�*ννημα αὐτοῦ 3.8.2. b. σπερματικὸς λ. generative principle in organisms, ὁ θεὸς σπ. λ. τοῦ κόσμου Zeno Stoic.1.28: usu. in pl., Stoic.2.205, 314, al.; γίνεται τὰ ἐν τῷ παντὶ οὐ κατὰ σπερματικούς, ἀλλὰ κατὰ λ. περιληπτικούς Plot.3.1.7, cf. 4.4.39; so without σπερματικός, ὥσπερτινὲς λ. τῶν μερῶν Cleanth.Stoic.1.111; οἱ λ. τῶν ὅλων Ph.1.9. c. in Neo-Platonic Philos., of regulative and formative forces, derived from the intelligible and operative in the sensible universe, ὄντων μειξόνων λ. καὶ θεωρούντων αὑτοὺς ἐγὼ γεγ�*ννημαι Plot.3.8.4; οἰ ἐν σπ�*ρματι λ. πλάττουσι .. τὰ ζῷα οἷον μικρούς τινας κόσμους Id.4.3.10, cf. 3.2.16, 3.5.7; opp. ὅρος, Id.6.7.4; ἀφανεῖς λ. τῆς φύσεως Procl.in R.1.18 K.; τεχνικοὶ λ. ib. 142 K., al. IV. inward debate of the soul (cf. λ. ὃν αὐτὴ πρὸς αὑτὴν ἡ ψυχὴ διεξ�*ρχεται Pl.Tht.189e (διάλογος in Sph.263e) ὁ ἐν τῇ ψυχῇ, ὁ ἔσω λ. (opp. ὁ ἔχω λ.), Arist.APo.76b25, 27; ὁ ἐνδιάθετος, opp. ὁ προφορικὸς λ., Stoic.2.43, Ph.2.154), 1. thinking, reasoning, τοῦ λ. ἐόντος ξυνοῦ, opp. ἰδία φρόνησις, Heraclit.2; κρῖναι δὲ λόγῳ .. ἔλεγχον test by reflection, Parm.1.36; reflection, deliberation (cf. vi. 3), ἐδίδου λόγον ἑωυτῷ περὶ τῆς ὄψιος Hdt.1.209, cf. 34, S.OT583, D.45.7; μὴ εἰδ�*ναι .. μήτε λόγῳ μήτε ἔργῳ neither by reasoning nor by experience, Anaxag.7; ἃ δὴ λόγῳ μὲν καὶ διανοίᾳ ληπτά, ὄψει δ᾽ οὔ Pl.R.529d, cf. Prm.135e; ὁ λ. ἢ ἡ αἴσθησις Arist.EN1149a35, al.; αὐτῷ μόνον τῷ λ. πιστεύειν (opp. αἰσθήσεις), of Parmenides and his school, Aristocl.ap.Eus.PE14.17: hence λόγῳ or τῷ λ. in idea, in thought, τῷ λ. τ�*μνειν Pl.R.525e; τῷ λ. δύο ἐστίν, ἀχώριστα πεφυκότα two in idea, though indistinguishable in fact, Arist.EN1102a30, cf. GC320b14, al.; λόγῳ θεωρητά mentally conceived, opp. sensibly perceived, Placit.1.3.5, cf. Demetr.Lac.Herc.1055.20; τοὺς λ. θεωρητοὺς χρόνους Epicur.Ep.1 p.19 U.; διὰ λόγου θ. χ. ib. p.10 U.; λόγῳ καταληπτός Phld.Po.5.20, etc.; ὁ λ. οὕτω αἱρ�*ει analogy proves, Hdt.2.33; ὁ λ. or λ. αἱρ�*ει reasoning convinces, Id.3.45, 6.124, cf. Pl.Cri.48c (but, our argument shows, Lg.663d): also c. acc. pers., χρᾶται ὅ τι μιν λ. αἱρ�*ει as the whim took him, Hdt.1.132; ἢν μὴ ἡμ�*ας λ. αἱρῇ unless we see fit, Id.4.127, cf. Pl.R.607b; later ὁ οἱρῶν λ. ordaining reason, Zeno Stoic.1.50, M.Ant.2.5, cf. 4.24, Arr.Epict.2.2.20, etc.: coupled or contrasted with other functions, καθ᾽ ὕπνον ἐπειδὴ λόγου καὶ θρονήσεως οὐ μετεῖχε since reason and understanding are in abeyance, Pl.Ti.71d; μετὰ λόγου τε καὶ ἐπιστήμης, opp. αἰτία αὐτομάτη, of Nature’s processes of production, Id.Sph.265c; τὸ μὲν δὴ νοήσει μετὰ λόγου περιληπτόν embraced by thought with reflection, opp. μετ᾽ αἰσθήσεως ἀλόγου, Id.Ti.28a; τὸ μὲν ἀεὶ μετ᾽ ἀληοῦς λ., opp. τὸ δὲ ἄλογον, ib. 51e, cf. 70d, al.; λ. ἔχων ἑπόμενον τῷ νοεῖν Id.Phlb.62a; ἐπιστήμη ἐνοῦσα καὶ ὀρθὸς λ. scientific knowledge and right process of thought, Id.Phd.73a; πᾶς λ. καὶ πᾶσα ἐπιστήμη τῶν καθόλου Arist.Metaph.1059b26; τὸ λόγον ἔχον Id.EN1102b15, 1138b9, al.: in sg. and pl., contrasted by Pl. and Arist. as theory, abstract reasoning with outward experience, sts. with depreciatory emphasis on the former, εἰς τοὺς λ. καταφυγόντα Pl.Phd.99e; τὸν ἐν λόγοις σκοπούμενον τὰ ὄντα, opp. τὸν ἐν ἔργοις (realities), ib. 100a; τῇ αἰσθήσει μᾶλλον τῶν λ. πιστευτ�*ον Arist.GA760b31; γνωριμώτερα κατὰ τὸν λ., opp. κατὰ τὴν αἴσθησιν, Id.Ph.189a4; ἐκ τῶν λ. δῆλον, opp. ἐκ τῆς ἐπαγωγῆς, Id.Mete.378b20; ἡ τῶν λ. πίστις, opp. ἐκ τῶν ἔργων φανερόν, Id.Pol.1326a29; ἡ πίστις οὐ μόνον ἐπὶ τῆς αἰσθήσεως ἀλλὰ καὶ ἐπὶ τοῦ λ. Id.Ph.262a19; μαρτυρεῖ τὰ γιγνόμενα τοῖς λ. Id.Pol.1334a6; ὁ μὲν λ. τοῦ καθόλου, ἡ δὲ αἴσθησις τοῦ κατὰ μ�*ρος explanation, opp. perception, Id.Ph.189a7; ἔσονται τοῖς λ. αἱ πράξεις ἀκόλουθοι theory, opp. practice, Epicur.Sent.25; in Logic, of discursive reasoning, opp. intuition, Arist.EN1142a26, 1143b1; reasoning in general, ib. 1149a26; πᾶς λ. καὶ πᾶσα ἀπόδειξις all reasoning and demonstration, Id.Metaph.1063b10; λ. καὶ φρόνησιν Phld.Mus.p.105 K.; ὁ λ. ἢ λογισμός ibid.; τὸ ἰδεῖν οὐκ�*τι λ., ἀλλὰ μεῖζον λόγου καὶ πρὸ λόγου, of mystical vision, opp. reasoning, Plot.6.9.10.—Phrases, κατὰ λ. τὸν εἰκότα by probable reasoning, Pl.Ti.30b; οὔκουν τὸν γ᾽ εἰκότα λ. ἂν ἔχοι Id. Lg.647d; παρὰ λόγον, opp. κατὰ λ., Arist.Rh.Al.1429a29, cf. EN1167b19; cf. παράλογος (but παρὰ λ. unexpectedly, E.Ba.940). 2. reason as a faculty, ὁ λ. ἀνθρώπους κυβερνᾷ [Epich.]256; [θυμοειδὲς] τοῦ λ. κατήκοον Pl.Ti.70a; [θυμὸς] ὑπὸ τοῦ λ. ἀνακληθείς Id.R.440d; σύμμαχον τῷ λ. τὸν θυμόν ib.b; πειθαρχεῖ τῷ λ. τὸ τοῦ ἐγκρατοῦς Arist.EN1102b26; ἄλλο τι παρὰ τὸν λ. πεφυκός, ὃ μάχεται τῷ λ. ib. 17; ἐναντίωσις λόγου πρὸς ἐπιθυμίας Plot.4.7.13(8); οὐ θυμός, οὐκ ἐπιθυμία, οὐδὲ λ. αὐδ�* τις νόησις Id.6.9.11: freq. in Stoic. Philos. of human Reason, opp. φαντασία, Zeno Stoic.1.39; opp. φύσις Stoic.2.206; οὐ σοφία οὐδὲ λ. ἐστὶν ἐν [τοῖς ζῴοις] ibid.; τοῖς ἀλόγοις ζῳοις ὡς λ. ἔχων λ. μὴ ἔχουσι χρῶ M.Ant.6.23; ὁ λ. κοινὸν πρὸς τοὺς θεούς Arr.Epict.1.3.3; οἷον [εἰκὼν] λ. ὁ ἐν προφορᾷ λόγου τοῦ ἐν ψυχῇ, οὕτω καὶ αὐτὴ λ. νοῦ Plot.5.1.3; τὸ τὸν λ. σχεῖν τὴν οἰκείαν ἀρετὴν (sc. εὐδαιμονίαν) Procl.in Ti.3.334 D.; also of the reason which pervades the universe, θεῖος λ. [Epich.] 257; τὸν θεῖον λ. καθ᾽ Ἡράκλειτον δι᾽ ἀναπνοῆς σπάσαντες νοεροὶ γινόμεθα S.E.M.7.129 (cf. infr. x). b. creative reason, ἀδύνατον ἦν λόγον μὴ αὐκ ἐπὶ πάντα ἐλθεῖν Plot.3.2.14; ἀρχὴ αὖν λ. καὶ πάντα λ. καὶ τὰ γινόμενα κατ᾽ αὐτὸν Id.3.2.15; οἱ λ. πάντες ψυχαί Id.3.2.18 V. continuous statement, narrative (whether fact or fiction), oration, etc. (cf. λ�*γω (b) ii. 2), 1. fable, Hdt.1.141; Αἰσώπου λόγοι Pl.Phd.60d, cf. Arist.Rh.1393b8; ὁ τοῦ κυνὸς λ. X.Mem.2.7.13. 2. legend, ἱρὸς λ. Hdt.2.62, cf. 47, Pi.P.3.80 (pl.); συνθ�*ντες λ. E.Ba.297; λ. θεῖος Pl.Phd.85d; ἱεροὶ λ., of Orphic rhapsodies, Suid. s.v. Ὀρφεύς. 3. tale, story, ἄλλον ἔπειμι λ. Xenoph.7.1, cf. Th.1.97, etc.; συνθ�*τους λ. A.Pr.686; σπουδὴν λόγου urgent tidings, E.Ba.663; ἄλλος λ. ‘another story’, Pl.Ap.34e; ὁμολογούμενος ὁ λ. ἐστίν the story is consistent, Isoc.3.27: pl., histories, ἐν τοῖσι Ἀσσυρίοισι λ. Hdt.1.184, cf. 106, 2.99; so in sg., a historical work, Id.2.123, 6.19, 7.152: also in sg., one section of such a work (like later βίβλος), Id.2.38, 6.39, cf. vi. 3d; so in pl., ἐν τοῖσι Διβυκοῖσι λ. Id.2.161, cf. 1.75, 5.22, 7.93, 213; ἐν τῷ πρώτῳ τῶν λ. Id.5.36; ὁ πρῶτος λ., of St. Luke’s gospel, Act.Ap.1.1: in Pl., opp. μῦθος, as history to legend, Ti.26e; ποιεῖν μύθους ἀλλ᾽ οὐ λόγους Phd.61b, cf. Grg.523a (but μῦθον λ�*γειν, opp. λόγῳ (argument) διεξελθεῖν Prt.320c, cf. 342d); περὶ λόγων καὶ μύθων Arist.Pol.1336a30; ὁ λ. .. μῦθός ἐστι Ael.NA4.34. 4. speech, delivered in court, assembly, etc., χρήσομαι τῇ τοῦ λ. τάξει ταύτῃ Aeschin.3.57, cf. Arist.Rh.1358a38; δικανικοὶ λ. Id.EN1181a4; τρία γ�*νη τῶν λ. τῶν ῥητορικῶν, συμβουλευτικόν, δικανικόν, ἐπιδεικτικόν Id.Rh.1358b7; τῷ γράψαντι τὸν λ. Thphr.Char.17.8, cf. λογογράφος ii; ἐπιτάφιος λ. funeral oration, Pl.Mx.236b; esp. of the body of a speech, opp. ἐπίλογος, Arist.Rh.1420b3; opp. προοίμιον, ib. 1415a12; body of a law, opp. proem, Pl.Lg.723b; spoken, opp. written word, τὸν τοῦ εἰδότος λ. ζῶντα καὶ ἔμψυχον οὗ ὁ γεγραμμ�*νος εἴδωλόν τι Id.Phdr.276a; ὁ ἐκ τοῦ βιβλίου ῥηθεὶς [λ.] speech read from a roll, ib. 243c; published speech, D.C.40.54; rarely of the speeches in Tragedy (ῥήσεις), Arist.Po.1450b6, 9. VI. verbal expression or utterance (cf. λ�*γω (b) iii), rarely a single word, v. infr. b, never in Gramm. signf. of vocable (ἔπος, λ�*ξις, ὄνομα, ῥῆμα), usu. of a phrase, cf. ix. 3 (the only sense found in Ep.). a. pl., without Art., talk, τὸν ἔτερπε λόγοις Il.15.393; αἱμύλιοι λ. Od.1.56, h.Merc.317, Hes.Th.890, Op.78, 789, Thgn.704, A.R.3.1141; ψευδεῖς Δ., personified, Hes.Th.229; ἀφροδίσιοι λ. Semon.7.91; ἀγανοῖσι λ. Pi.P.4.101; ὄψον δὲ λ. φθονεροῖσιν tales, Id.N.8.21; σμικροὶ λ. brief words, S.Aj.1268 (s.v.l.), El.415; δόκησις ἀγνὼς λόγων bred of talk, Id.OT681 (lyr.): also in sg., τὰ μὲν ἄν Μοίσαι .. ἐμβαίεν λόγ[ῳ] Ibyc.1(a).24 P. λ�*γ᾽ εισοι τῷ λ. τις ἡδονή speak if thou delightest in talking, Id.El.89.1. b. sg., expression, phrase, πρὶν εἰπεῖν ἐσ θλὸν ἢ κακὸν λ. Id.Ant.1245, cf. E.Hipp.514; μυρίας ὡς εἰπεῖν λόγῳ Hdt.2.37; μακρὸς λ. rigmarole, Simon.189, Arist.Metaph.1091a8; λ. �*ρ�*μα λεχθεὶς δι�*θηκε τὸ πόρρω a whispered message, Plot.4.9.3; ἑνὶ λόγῳ to sum up, in brief phrase, Pl.Phdr.241e, Phd.65d; concisely, Arist.EN1103b21 (but also, = ἁπλῶς, περὶ πάντων ἐνὶ λ. Id.GC325a1): pl., λ. θελκτήριοι magic words, E.Hipp.478; rarely of single words, λ. εὐσύνθετος οἷον τὸ “χρονοτριβεῖν” Arist.Rh.1406a36; οὐκ ἀπεκρίθη αὐτῇ λ. answered her not a word, Ev.Matt.15.23. c. coupled or contrasted with words expressed or understood signifying act, fact, truth, etc., mostly in a depreciatory sense, λ. ἔργου σκιή Democr.145; ὥσπερ μικρὸν παῖδα λόγοις μ᾽ ἀπατᾷς Thgn.254; λόγῳ, opp. ἔργῳ, Democr.82, etc.; νηπίοισι αὐ λ. ἀλλὰ ξυμφορὴ δδάσκαλος Id.76; ἔργῳ κοὐ λόγῳ τεκμαίρομαι A.Pr.338, cf. S.El.59, OC782; λόγῳ μὲν λ�*γουσι .. ἔργῳ δὲ οὐκ ἀποδεικνῦσι Hdt.4.8; οὐ λόγων, φασίν, ἡ ἀγορὴ δεῖται, χαλκῶν δ�* Herod.7.49; οὔτε λ. οὔτε ἔργῳ Lys.9.14; λόγοις, opp. ψήφῳ, Aeschin.2.33; opp. νόῳ, Hdt.2.100; οὐ λόγῳ μαθών E.Heracl.5; ἐκ λόγων, κούφου πράγματος Pl.Lg.935a; λόγοισι εἰς τὸ πιθανὸν περιπεπεμμ�*να ib. 886e, cf. Luc.Anach.19; ἵνα μὴ λ. οἴησθε εἶναι, ἀλλ᾽ εἰδῆτε τὴν ἀλήθειαν Lycurg.23, cf. D.30.34; opp. πρᾶγμα, Arist.Top.146a4; opp. βία Id.EN1179b29, cf. 1180a5; opp. ὄντα, Pl.Phd.100a; opp. γνῶσις, 2Ep.Cor.11.6; λόγῳ in pretence, Hdt.1.205, Pl.R.361b, 376d, Ti.27a, al.; λόγου ἕνεκα merely as a matter of words, ἄλλως ἕνεκα λ. ἐλ�*γετο Id.Cri.46d; λόγου χάριν, opp. �*ς ἀληθῶς, Arist.Pol.1280b8; but also, let us say, for instance, Id.EN1144a33, Plb.10.46.4, Phld.Sign.29, M.Ant.4.32; λόγου ἕνεκα let us suppose, Pl.Tht.191c; ἕως λόγου, μ�*χρι λ., = Lat. verbo tenus, Plb.10.24.7, Epict.Ench.16: sts. without depreciatory force, the antithesis or parallelism being verbal (cf. ‘word and deed’), λόγῳ τε καὶ σθ�*νει S.OC68; ἔν τε ἔργῳ καὶ λ. Pl.R.382e, cf. D.S.13.101, Ev.Luc.24.19, Act.Ap.7.22, Paus.2.16.2; ὅσα μὲν λόγῳ εἶπον, opp. τὰ ἔργα τῶν πραχθ�*ντων, Th.1.22. 2. common talk, report, tradition, ὡς λ. ἐν θνητοῖσιν ἔην Batr.8; λ. ἐκ πατ�*ρων Alc.71; οὐκ ἔστ᾽ ἔτυμος λ. οὗτος Stesich.32; διξὸς λ�*γεται λ. Hdt.3.32; λ. ὑπ᾽ Αἰγυπτίων λεγόμενος Id.2.47; ν�*ον [λ.] tidings, S.Ant.1289 (lyr.); τὰ μὲν αὐτοὶ ὡρῶμεν, τὰ δὲ λόγοισι ἐπυνθανόμεθα by hearsay, Hdt.2.148: also in pl., ἐν γράμμασιν λόγοι κ�*μενοι traditions, Pl.Lg.886b. b. rumour, ἐπὶ παντὶ λ. ἐπτοῆσθαι Heraclit.87; αὐδάεις λ. voice of rumour, B.14.44; περὶ θεῶν διῆλθεν ὁ λ. ὅτι .. Th.6.46; λ. παρεῖχεν ὡς .. Plb.3.89.3; ἐξῆλθεν ὁ λ. οὗτος εἴς τινας ὅτι .. Ev.Jo.21.23 cf. Act.Ap.11.22; fiction, Ev.Matt.28.15. c. mention, notice, description, οὐκ ὕει λόγου ἅξιον οὐδ�*ν worth mentioning, Hdt.4.28, cf. Plb.1.24.8, etc.; ἔργα λόγου μ�*ζω beyond expression, Hdt.2.35; κρεῖσσον λόγου τὸ εἶδος τῆς νόσου beyond description, Th.2.50; μείζω ἔργα ἢ ὡς τῷ λ. τις ἂν εἴποι D.6.11. d. the talk one occasions, repute, mostly in good sense, good report, praise, honour (cf. supr. i. 4), πολλὰ φ�*ρειν εἴωθε λ. .. πταίσματα Thgn.1221; λ. ἑαλὸν ἀκοῦσαι Pi.I.5(4).13; πλ�*ονα. .. λ. Ὀδυσσ�*ος ἢ πάθαν Id.N.7.21; ἵνα λ. σε ἔχῃ πρὸς ἀνθρώπων ἀγαθός Hdt.7.5, cf. 9.78; Τροίαν .. ἧς ἁπανταχοῦ λ. whose fame, story fills the world, E.IT517; οὐκ ἂν ἦν λ. σ�*θεν Id.Med.541; less freq. in bad sense, evil report, λ. κακόθρους, κακός, S.Aj.138 (anap.), E.Heracl.165: pl., λόγους ψιθύρους πλάσσων slanders, S.Aj.148 (anap.). e. λ. ἐστί, ἔχει, κατ�*χει, the story goes, c. acc. et inf. ἔστ τις λ. τὰν Ἀρετὰν ναίειν Simon.58.1, cf. S.El.417; λ. μὲν ἔστ᾽ ἀρχαῖος ὡς .. Id.Tr.1; λ. alone, E.Heracl.35; ὡς λ. A.Supp.230, Pl.Phlb.65e, etc.; λ. ἐστί Hdt.7.129, 9.26, al.; λ. αἰὲν ἔχει S.OC1573 (lyr.); ὅσον ὁ λ. κατ�*χει tradition prevails, Th.1.10: also with a personal subject in the reverse construction, Κλεισθ�*νης λ. ἔχει τὴν �*νθίην ἀναπεῖσαι has the credit of .., Hdt.5.66, cf. Pl.Epin.987b, 988b; λ. ἔχοντα σοφίας Ep.Col.2.23, v. supr. i. 4. 3. discussion, debate, deliberation, πολλὸς ἦν ἐν τοῖσι λ. Hdt.8.59; συνελ�*χθησαν οἱ Μῆδοι ἐς τ�*υτὸ καὶ ἐδίδοσαν σφίσι λόγον, λ�*γοντες περὶ τῶν κατηκόντων Id.1.97; οἱ �*ελασγοὶ ἐωυτοῖσι λόγους ἐδίδοσαν Id.6.138; πολ�*μῳ μᾶλλον ἢ λόγοις τὰ ἐγκλήματα διαλύεσθαι Th.1.140; οἱ περὶ τῆς εἰρήνης λ. Aeschin.2.74; τοῖς ἔξωθεν λ. πεπλήρωκε τὸν λ. [Plato] has filled his dialogue with extraneous discussion, Arist.Pol.1264b39; τὸ μῆκος τῶν λ. D.Chr.7.131; μεταβαίνων ὁ λ. εἰς ταὐτὸν ἀφῖκται our debate, Arist.EN1097a24; ὁ παρὼν λ. ib. 1104a11; θεῶν ὧν νῦν ὁ λ. ἐστί discussion, Pl.Ap.26b, cf. Tht.184a, M.Ant.8.32; τῷ λ. διελθεῖν, διϊ�*ναι, Pl.Prt.329c Grg.506a, etc.; τὸν λ. διεξελθεῖν conduct the debate, Id.Lg.893a; ξυνελθεῖν ἐς λόγον confer, Ar.Eq.1300: freq. in pl., ἐς λόγους συνελθόντες parley, Hdt.1.82; ἐς λ. ἐλθεῖν τίι have speech with, ib. 86; ἐς λ. ἀπικ�*σθαι τινί Id.2.32; διὰ λόγων ἰ�*ναι E.Tr.916; ἐμαυτῇ διὰ λ. ἀφικόμην Id.Med.872; ἐς λ. ἄγειν τινά X.HG4.1.2; κοινωνεῖν λόγων καὶ διανοίας Arist.EN1170b12, παρεῖναι ἐν λ., i.e. where there is speaking, οἳ π. ἐν λ. who hear my words, E.Rh.149 (v.l.), Ar.Ach.513; in direct address to the audience, ὦνδρες οἱ παρόντες ἐν λ. Id.Av.30; ἀπὸ λόγου app. orally, PMich. viii 492.5, 19 (ii a.d.). b. right of discussion or speech, ἢ ᾽πὶ τῷ πλήθει λ.; S.OC66; λ. αἰτήσασθαι ask leave to speak, Th.3.53; λ. διδόναι X.HG5.2.20; οὐ προυτ�*θη σφίσιν λ. κατὰ τὸν νόμον ib. 1.7.5; λόγον τυχεῖν D.18.13, cf. Arist.EN1095b21, Plb.18.52.1; οἱ λόγον τοὺς δούλους ἀποστεροῦντες Arist.Pol.1260b5; δοῦλος π�*φυκας, οὐ μ�*τεστί σοι λόγου Trag.Adesp.304; διδόντας λ. καὶ δεχομ�*νους ἐν τῷ μ�*ρει Luc.Pisc.8: hence, time allowed for a speech, ἐν τῷ ἐμῷ λ. And.1.26, al.; ἐν τῷ ἑαυτοῦ λ. Pl.Ap.34a; οὐκ ἐλάττω λ. ἀνήλωκε D.18.9. c. dialogue, as a form of philosophical debate, ἵνα μὴ μαχώμεθα ἐν τοῖς λ. ἐγώ τε καὶ σύ Pl.Cra.430d; πρὸς ἀλλήλους τοὺς λ. ποιεῖσθαι Id.Prt.348a: hence, dialogue as a form of literature, οἱ Σωκρατικοὶ λ. Arist.Po.1447b11, Rh.1417a20; cf. διάλογος. d. section, division of a dialogue or treatise (cf. v. 3), ὁ πρῶτος λ. Pl.Prm.127d; ὁ πρόσθεν, ὁ παρελθὼν λ., Id.Phlb.18e, 19b; ἐν τοῖς πρώτοις λ. Arist.PA682a3; ἐν τοῖς περὶ κινήσεως λ. in the discussion of motion (i.e. Ph.bk.8), Id.GC318a4; ἐν τῷ περὶ ἐπαίνου λ. Phld.Rh.1.219; branch, department, division of a system of philosophy, τὴν φρόνησιν ἐκ τριῶν συνεστηκ�*ναι λ., τῶν φυσικῶν καὶ τῶν �*θικῶν καὶ τῶν λογικῶν Chrysipp.Stoic.2.258. e. in pl., literature, letters, Pl.Ax.365b, Epin.975d, D.H.Comp.1, 21 (but, also in pl., treatises, Plu.2.16c); οἱ ἐπὶ λόγοις εὐδοκιμώτατοι Hdn.6.14; Λόγοι, personified, AP9.171 (Pall.), also rhetoric, as discipline, GVI1081.3. VII. a particular utterance, saying: 1. divine utterance, oracle, Pi.P.4.59; λ. μαντικοί Pl.Phdr.275b; οὐ γὰρ ἐμὸν ἐρῶ τὸν λ. Pl.Ap.20e; ὁ λ. τοῦ θεοῦ Apoc.1.2, 9. 2. proverb, maxim, saying, Pi.N.9.6, A.Th.218; ὧδ᾽ ἔχει λ. ib. 225; τόνδ᾽ ἐκαίνισεν λ. ὡς .. Critias21, cf. Pl.R.330a, Ev.Jo.4.37; ὁ παλαιὸς λ. Pl.Phdr.240c, cf. Smp.195b, Grg.449c, Lg.757a, 1Ep.Ti.1.15, Plu.2.1082e, Luc.Alex.9, etc.; ἵνα τὸ τοῦ λόγου πάθω Men.Dysc.633 S. τὸ τοῦ λόγον δὴ τοῦτο Herod.2.45, cf. D.Chr.66.24, Luc.JTr.3, Alciphr.3.56, etc.: pl., Arist.EN1147a21. 3. assertion, opp. oath, S.OC651; ψιλῷ λ. bare word, opp. μαρτυρία, D.27.54. 4. express resolution, κοινῷ λ. by common consent, Hdt.1.141, al.; ἐπὶ λ. τοιῷδε, ἐπ᾽ ᾧ τε .. on the following terms, Id.7.158, cf. 9.26; ἐνδ�*ξασθαι τὸν λ. Id.1.60, cf. 9.5; λ. ἔχοντες πλεον�*κτην a greedy proposal, Id.7.158: freq. in pl., terms, conditions, Id.9.33, etc. 5. word of command, behest, A.Pr.17, 40 (both pl.), Pers.363; ἐνθρώπους πιθανωτ�*ρους ποιεῖν λόγῳ X.Oec.13.9; ἐξ�*βαλε τὰ πνεύματα λόγῳ Ev.Matt.8.16; οἱ δ�*κα λ. the ten Commandments, LxxEx.34.28, Ph.1.496. 6. declaration of legal immunity, τοὺς καλουμ�*νους λόγους Just.Nov.17.6; cf. οἷς ἄν ἐθ�*λοιεν λόγον ἀσυλίας παρ�*χοντας id.Edict.2 pr. 7. ὁ διὰ λόγων, expression used to add a person’s official name, according to official documents called .., BGU2263.7 (ii a.d.). VIII. thing spoken of, subject-matter (cf. iii. 1b and 2), λ. τοῦτον ἐάσομεν Thgn.1055; προπεπυσμ�*νος πάντα λ. the whole matter, Hdt.1.21, cf. iii; τὸν ἐόντα λ. the truth of the matter, ib. 95, 116; μετασχεῖν τοῦ λ. to be in the secret, ib. 127; μηδενὶ ἄλλῳ τὸν λ. τοῦτον εἴπῃς Id.8.65; τίς ἦν λ.; S.OT684 (= πρᾶγμα, 699); περί τινος λ. διελεγόμεθα subject, question, Pl.Prt.314c; [τὸ προοίμιον] δεῖγμα τοῦ λ. case, Arist.Rh.1415a12, cf. iii. 1b; τ�*λος δὲ παντὸς τοῦ λ. ψηφίζονται the end of the matter was that .., Aeschin.3.124; οὐκ ἔστεξε τὸν λ. Plb.8.12.5; οὐκ ἔστι σοι μερὶς οὐδὲ κλῆρος ἐν τῷ λ. τούτῳ Act.Ap.8.21; ἱκανὸς αὐτῷ ὁ λ. Pl.Grg.512c; οὐχ ὑπολείπει [Γοργίαν] ὁ λ. matter for talk, Arist.Rh.1418a35; μηδ�*να λ. ὑπολιπεῖν Isoc.4.146; πρὸς λόγον to the point, apposite, οὐδὲν πρὸς λ. Pl.Phlb.42e, cf. Prt.344a; ἐὰν πρὸς λ. τι ᾖ Id.Phlb.33c; also πρὸς λόγου Id.Grg.459c (s.v.l.). 2. plot of a narrative or dramatic poem, = μῦθος, Arist.Po.1455b17, al. b. in Art, subject of a painting, ζωγραφίας λόγοι Philostr.VA6.10; λ. τῆς γραφῆς Id.Im.1.25. 3. thing talked of, event, μετὰ τοὺς λ. τούτους Lxx1Ma.7.33, cf. Act.Ap.15.6. IX. expression, utterance, speech regarded formally, τὸ ἀπὸ [ψυχῆς] ῥεῦμα διὰ τοῦ στόματος ἰὸν μετὰ φθόγγου λ., opp. διάνοια, Pl.Sph.263e; intelligent utterance, opp. φωνή, Arist.Pol.1253a14; λ. ἐστὶ φωνὴ σημαντικὴ κατὰ συνθήκην Id.Int.16b26, cf. Diog.Bab.Stoic.3.213; ὃθεν (from the heart) ὁ λ. ἀναπ�*μπεται Stoic.2.228, cf. 244; Protagoras was nicknamed λόγος, Hsch.ap.Sch.Pl.R.600c, Suid.; λόγου πειθοῖ Democr.181: in pl., eloquence, Isoc.3.3, 9.11; τὴν ἐν λόγοις εὐρυθμίαν Epicur.Sent.Pal.5p.69 v. d. M.; λ. ἀκριβής precise language, Ar.Nu.130 (pl.), cf. Arist.Rh.1418b1; τοῦ μὴ ᾀδομ�*νου λ. Pl.R.398d; ἡδυσμ�*νος λ., of rhythmical language set to music, Arist.Po.1449b25; ἐν παντὶ λ. in all manner of utterance, 1Ep.Cor.1.5; ἐν λόγοις in orations, Arist.Po.1459a13; λ. γελοῖοι, ἀσχήμονες, ludicrous, improper speech, Id.SE182b15, Pol.1336b14. 2. of various modes of expression, esp. artistic and literary, ἔν τε ῷδαῖς καὶ μύθοις καὶ λόγοις Pl.Lg.664a; ἐν λόγῳ καὶ ἐν ῷδαῖς X.Cyr.1.4.25, cf. Pl.Lg.835b; prose, opp. ποίησις, Id.R.390a; opp. ψιλομετρία, Arist.Po.1448a11; opp. ἔμμετρα, ib. 1450b15 (pl.); τῷ λ. τοῦτο τῶν μ�*τρων (sc. τὸ ἰαμβεῖον) ὁμοιότατον εἶναι Id.Rh.1404a31; in full, ψιλοὶ λ. prose, ib. b33 (but ψιλοὶ λ., = arguments without diagrams, Pl.Tht.165a); λ. πεζοί, opp. ποιητική, D.H.Comp.6; opp. ποιήματα, ib. 15; καινὰ καὶ ποιημάτων καὶ λόγων Phld.Po.5.7; πεζὸς λ. ib. 27, al. b. of the constituents of lyric or dramatic poetry, words, τὸ μ�*λος ἐκ τριῶν .. λόγον τε καὶ ἀρμονίας καὶ ῥυθμοῦ Pl.R.398d; opp. πρᾶξις, Arist.Po.1454a18; dramatic dialogue, opp. τὰ τοῦ χοροῦ, ib. 1449a17. 3. Gramm., phrase, complex term, opp. ὄνομα, Id.SE165a13; λ. ὀνοματώδης noun-phrase, Id.APo.93b30, cf. Rh.1407b27; expression, D.H.Th.2, Demetr.Eloc.92. b. sentence, complete statement, “ἄνθρωπος μανθάνει” λόγον εἶναί φῃς .. ἐλάχιστόν τε καὶ πρῶτον Pl.Sph.262c; λ. αὐτοτελής A.D.Synt.3.6, D.T.634.1; ῥηθῆναι λόγῳ to be expressed in a sentence, Pl.Tht.202b; λ. ἔχειν to be capable of being so expressed, ib. 201e, cf. Arist.Rh.1404b26. c. language, τὰ τοῦ λ. μ�*ρη parts of speech, Chrysipp.Stoic.2.31, S.E.M.9.350, etc.; τὰ μόρια τοῦ λ. D.H.Comp.6; μ�*ρος λ. D.T.633.26, A.D.Pron.4.6, al. (but ἓν μ�*ρος ‹τοῦ cod.› λόγου one word, Id.Synt.340.10, cf. 334.22); περὶ τῶν στοιχείων τοῦ λ., title of work by Chrysippus. X. the Word or Wisdom of God, personified as his agent in creation and world-government, ὁ παντοδύναμός σου λ. LxxWi.18.15; ὁ ἐκ νοὸς φωτεινὸς λ. υἱὸς θεοῦ Corp.Herm.1.6, cf. Plu.2.376c; λ. θεοῦ δι᾽ οὗ κατεσκευάσθη [ὁ κόσμος] Ph.1.162; τῆς τοῦ θεοῦ σοφίας· ἡ δ�* ἑστιν ὁ θεοῦ λ. ib. 56; λ. θεῖος .. εἰκὼν θεοῦ ib. 561, cf. 501; τὸν τομ�*α τῶν συμπάντων [θεοῦ] λ. ib. 492; τὸν ἄγγελον ὅς ἐστι λ. ib. 122: in NT identified with the person of Christ, ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ λ. Ev.Jo.1.1, cf. 14, 1Ep.Jo.2.7, Apoc.19.13; ὁ λ. τῆς ζωῆς 1Ep.Jo.1.1. Liddell, H. G., Scott, R., Jones, H. S., & McKenzie, R. (1996). A Greek-English lexicon. "With a revised supplement, 1996." (Rev. and augm. throughout) (1057). Oxford; New York: Clarendon Press; Oxford University Press.

BDGA entry on λόγος

spin

I don't see the argument linking "things either said and done" to Peter's opportunistic teachings (which used "the lordly sayings") as indicative of what you want to make out of it. The telling of the sayings could easily have been in a dramatic context. The gospeler of the passage attributed to Papias need only be perceived as writing down those contextualized sayings to write down "as many things as he remembered of the things either said or done by the Lord." Am I missing something here?


spin

Ben C Smith

Do you mean a dramatic context in which the preacher (Peter in this case) is acting out something? I guess I am not seeing your point here.

If I am understanding you correctly, you are saying that the things said are sayings (as found in most of the gospel of Thomas or in the hypothetical Q), while the things done are contextual actions for those sayings. Is that correct? If so, how much context do you suppose the things done are providing for the things said? No more than Jesus said (speaking being a form of doing something, I suppose)? Or more than that?

The point of this thread is not to mount a positive argument but rather to neuter one. It is claimed that the term logia in the Papian description of the gospel of Matthew must mean sayings (as in a Q) as opposed to deeds (as found side by side with words in a narrative gospel such as one of the synoptics). I am countering that the Papian description of the gospel of Mark is against this elimination; it places logia in parallel with sayings and doings. Now, this does not tell us the proportion of sayings and doings, of course; if the proportion is 95% sayings to only 5% doings, then of course a Q document is still possible. But who is to say that is the correct proportion? What if it is 50% to 50%? What if it actually favors deeds over sayings, and the term logia is being used as it is used of the Hebrew scriptures in various places, covering everything?

For the record, I think that the Hebrew gospel to which Papias is referring is not our gospel of Matthew. But I do not think that the argument from the term logia is a very good one in favor of the position that I favor.

(I also like to think that Papias did know our Greek gospel of Matthew, or some version of it, but was including it under the various translations of the original Hebrew, as best as they could. IOW, I do not think Papias or his elder was all that fond of our Greek Matthew. But that is a separate issue.)

Ben.