wordy

Is it not true that Jews borrowed texts from neighboring tribes. Genesis has two such stories, The Flood seems to be a loan too. Could not the story about Jesus be such a rewritten theme about a great leader that God send to his followers.

Another similar perspective. suppose you belong to one of many sects and you want to start a new one. You have to present something believable and the Jesus story is so believable that even Richard Dawkins seems to not dismiss it entirally.

I hope it is a myth. It looks like a myth to me. Maybe some created a similar myth based on Zodiac cause they could. Gnostics had their own myth.

Goathead

Well, id start with why follow an arsehole who kept you waiting 2000 years for a goddam party?

Richard Dawkins dismisses it out of hand, what he doesnt know is if it is based on a human from antiquity.

Either way, Super Jesus is not a thing my 8yr old cousin believes in, despite what her parents try to teach her.

Magdlyn

Bible, Shmible. Xtianity, for 1500 yrs, was based on more than the Bible. Catholicism still accepts tradition, apocrypha, writings of "Church fathers," along with the canon. Xianity as we have it today is based on the belief systems of many different cultures, some of which are European as well as Middle Eastern. (see: Saturnalia)

Come on! Take it easy. All 4 gospels are canonical. The Virgin Birth is doctrine.

Actually, if he mentions "The [mythical] Twelve" he is referring to a magical number that was also in the OT as the supposed number of tribes of Israel, which is in turn obviously a borrowing from Babylonian astrology.

I agree with the theory that the ages refer, in part, to the zodiac. Aries-Pisces. There is more to the invention of xianity than that, tho, of course. gurugeorge had a great post about it here:

http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=215718

post #9

The sun/son thing is bogus. And Isis was not a virgin when she conceived Horus. But I think you make some good points, Dollar.

gurugeorge

Hehe, don't recommend any of my posts to Chris, you'll give him one of his famous scholarly apoplectic fits. (We've had a few jousts )

gstafleu

Hi dollar,

All religions share certain similarities, but it is easy to get carried away. As always, the devil is in the details: e.g. the idea of someone being born on Dec 25 is a bit difficult when that person's culture has no month of December! The best one can do then is some complicated transformations, or say something like "He/she was born at or near the winter solstice." Of course for the latter to be relevant one assumes that the winter solstice is relevant. That is not a weird assumption, but it has to be backed up.

The field that studies the similarities and differences between religions is called "Comparative Mythology" (or "Comparative Religion" if you want to be overly sensitive re Judaism, Christianity, Islam and Hinduism). If you want to know more about the background of what religion is all about, have a look at that field. A good place to start is The Hero with a Thousand Faces by Joseph Campbell: from there you will get a start in comparing all religions to one another.

Another good book about this matter, focusing on Christianity, is Incredible Shrinking Son of Man by Robert Price. It does not so much compare Christianity to other religions as show how the gospels were put together from thoughts and ideas that were current at the time.

And just in case you think that Dan Brown's Da Vinci Code is in any way reliable, read The Da Vinci Fraud, also by Robert Price, which shows that the truth is much more interesting than what Brown cobbled together.

Gerard Stafleu

Chris Weimer

Exactly.

dollar

I have found a good read about how Christianity is Astrology.
Here is part of the read:
"In Job, God asked his humble servant a series of questions involving the wondrous miracles performed. In Job 38:31-33, God asks, “Can you bind the sweet influences of the Pleiades or loose the bonds of Orion? Can you bring forth the Mazzaroth in their seasons? Or can you guide Arcturus with his sons? Do you know the principles of the heavens? Can you set their dominion over the earth?”

Thus, God is proclaiming that there are principles in the heavens and that they govern life on earth. Furthermore, God is responsible for bringing forth the Mazzaroth in their seasons. Most Bibles avoid translating this sacred word, ‘Mazzaroth’, because it literally means, ‘the twelve signs of the zodiac’, in Hebrew. So, God created the zodiac and brings them forth in their seasons. He explains that heavenly constellations like the Pleiades and Orion have ‘influences’ that can be unleashed."

Find and read the rest of the text from the follow site:
http://www.divineinspirationastrolog...logy&bible.htm
I would appreciate it if you guys could read it then give me your thoughts on it.
thanks.

Darryl

The number 12 itself has a very special place among ancients that predates Christianity. The twelve disciples of Jesus is preceded by (and explcitly derived from) the twelve tribes of Israel which is itself preceded with Egyptian and Babylonian custom of dividing the hours of light (and darkness) into twelve intervals as minstered by the god Horus.

already established centuries before the Christian era, astrology was the science of the day, and maji(astologers) themselves were the first to worship Jesus, according to his rising star.

The question arises though, why twelve? Why not base 10, for example, or even 5?

Even for the Chinese, if I am not mistaken, it is twelve that is prominent in matters of astrology.

A clever answer that strikes me as being intuitively reasonable has to do with counting. By counting each knuckle of your four fingers with your thumb of that hand, 4 fingers x 3 knuckes, the repeatable cycle is 12. (The thumb itself of course cannot count its own knuckles, so is not included in the cycle).

This too explains why 60 as well becomes a rather sacred number for the ancients. Each cycle of twelve can be tracked with the five fingers of the other hand. 5x12=60, and the cycle is complete.

In general though, it is not surprising that astrology plays a role in Christianity, because astrology was the science of the day. Numbers, and sacred numbers, and the mysticism of numbers is clearly a part of the Biblical stories, as the number 666(616) is the most universally recognized example.

The numbers themelves are based on the astrological science of reading the ordering of the abode of the gods intwo the twelve houses of the heavenly Zodiac.

And arriving at these house is as simple as 1,2,3.

GakuseiDon

My thoughts: saying that the Bible supports astrology based on those passages would be the same as saying modern astronomers support astrology since they find meaning in the stars. Astrology is about how **fate** rules our lives based upon the position of lights in the sky, not just that we can get information from studying the sky. The article uses the poetic language in some Bible passages to derive significance that isn't supported by the text itself IMHO.

Goathead

Im sorry but it does not follow that ensuring the cycles of the seasons was the same as astrology?Surley you see the practical nature for farmers and or pasturilists in the goddam desert?

Australian aborigines are a good case, for the most part they know the stars, intimitaly.But do they believe in astrology? fuck no.