Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Clivedurdle · 06-15-2008, 07:55 AM

And it seems Palestine was not at peace under Domitian and his senior officer Trajan.

http://www.jstor.org/pss/266380

Quote:

Domitian's Attitude toward the Jews and Judaism
E. Mary Smallwood
Classical Philology, Vol. 51, No. 1 (Jan., 1956), pp. 1-13 (article consists of 13 pages)
Published by: The University of Chicago Press

rlogan · 06-15-2008, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clivedurdle

During the reign of Domitian.

Following a link on Britannica from the article on Domitian - that interestingly discusses at length his persecution of everyone but xians!

Right, thanks.

Quote:

The Dionysiac temple at Corinth had an underground system of tubes and barrels that could be operated by buttons from the outside. The priest showed the worshippers of the god a barrel filled with water. They left the temple together, and the door was sealed from without. By pressing the buttons, the water was let out of the barrel, and wine was poured in. The following day, when the seal was removed, the spectator witnessed the Dionysiac miracle of water turned into wine.

There are more hocus-pocus acts written in there too. Like "talking gods" where the priest uses secret passages to hide behind the statue and talk to the worshippers.

It never ceases to amaze me how much deference we give to these con men. We're not much better than the ignorant worshippers when we buy into their crap.

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It does not have to be a big bang conspiracy theory - just an attempt to take the fangs out of Judaism by paganising it - unsuccessfully, as it didn't accept Jesus as a roman god and that by rendering unto Caesar that which is Caesar's - including the fact that the emperor was a god, meant xians were meant to worship the emperor.

The story in Acts that it is OK to eat food sacrificed to gods may be another attempt to paganise the proto xians.

I think I should clarify what I mean by "big bang". Earl Doherty took significant note that different versions of Christianity were merged together over time, as opposed to a singular start that subsequently branched off into different creeds. It is backwards from what you would expect if there had been a Jesus who burst upon the scene, attracted a following, and then after some years theological differences developed that caused splits in the church. Jesus' bursting on the scene is the "big bang" theory of the religiously deluded.

An alternative "big bang" ( a singular source for the origin of Christianity) is that it was invented from a cold start by someone like Josephus working with the Romans in order to subvert Judaism into a compliant religion.

Just imagine the problems in introducing Jesus to the Jewish community in the region of the Temple. The fact is this Jesus is contrary to Judaism, and the more conservative the community, the greater the degree of revulsion would be towards this new religion. It has the best chances of success in the Hellenized world where the "connection" to Judaism is just handwaving smoke and mirrors.

The business about paganizing the Jews by relaxing food regulations - perhaps so, but it is also consistent with explaining to pagans who are only using the Hebrew Bible for gaining ancient credentials that they don't actually have to follow the Hebrew Bible.

mens_sana · 06-15-2008, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

Quote:

Originally Posted by mens_sana

Ah! I see. You are always serious, but occasionally need to relieve the concomitant stress with unfalsifiable "maybes." Hey, if that works for you, go for it.

Well, if you read gMatthew, you might be able to see how this Jesus could be considered to be from Egypt.

The angel told the parents to flee to Egypt with the baby Jesus?

Where do you think they registered the baby's birth, with Herod or in Egypt?

And if the baby Jesus was a real human baby, his parents would not be Mary and Joseph, since Mary was a virgin and Joseph had no sex with her.

Maybe the baby was an orphan or abducted in Egypt.

Wow! The world is alive and well to the sound of unfalsifiable "maybes" (is that a "Sound of Music" tune?).

But why would I go to obviously apologetic accounts of miraculous connection and Hebrew Bible prophecy — when MML and even J keep mentioning Galilee, directly or indirectly, as Jesus's place of origin?

So I just cannot think you're being serious — neither of us would like to forfeit our Ockham Society membership cards.

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