net2002

If YOU had bothered to study the Hebrew at all, then YOU would have discovered that God Transformed the Earth’s Atmosphere on Creation “Day” 4.

The sun, moon, and stars begin to mark Earth’s days, years, and seasons.

And said God, Let be luminaries in the expanse of the heavens to divide between the day and the night and let them be for signs, and for seasons and for days and years;and let them be for luminaries in the expanse of the heavens, to give light on the earth; and it was so. And brought forth God, two the luminaries great; the luminary great for the rule of the day, and the luminary small for the rule of the night, and the stars. And appointed them God in the heavens to give light on the earth, and to rule over the day and over the night, and to separate between the light and the darkness; and saw God that good (it was). And was the mixing and was the breaking forth time the fourth. (Gen 1:14-19)

Note that the text does not say that these luminaries were “created” on the fourth “day”.

In Genesis 1:14, the Hebrew verb is HAYA (be or exist) not BARA (create). In other words, “Let the lights in the sky be seen.” From the perspective from an observer on the earth’s surface, the existence of the luminaries could not be known until God transformed earth’s atmosphere from translucent to transparent.

Verse 16, a parenthetical note, does use the verb ASA, but the form of the verb employed indicates only that God completed manufacturing the luminaries ON OR BEFORE the fourth “Day”.

The Hebrew verb ASA, translated “made” or “brought forth”, appears in the appropriate form for COMPLETED ACTION. (There are no verb tenses in the Hebrew language to parallel verb tenses in English, but THREE Hebrew verb forms are used to denote action already completed, action not yet completed, and commands.)

Verse 16 does not specify when in the past the sun, moon, and stars were made. However, the wording of verses 17 & 18 provide a hint.

Notice the echo of wording from “day” One (Gen 3-5). These verses tell us WHY God created the Sun, Moon, and Stars and suggests that the sun was in place to fulfill its role on the first creation day:

Then said God, Let be light and was light. And saw God the light that good (it was) and separated God between the light and the darkness. And called God the light Day. And the darkness He called Night; and was the mixing and was the breaking forth time one. (Gen 1:3-5)

The compound Hebrew noun, shamayim wa’eres (heavens and Earth) in Genesis 1:1, places the making of the Sun and the stars BEFORE the first creation “day”:

In the beginning created God the heavens and the earth; and the earth was without form and empty, and darkness on the face of the deep; and the Spirit of God was brooding on the face of the waters. (Gen 1:1-2)



Support scripture:

Where were you when I founded the earth? Declare if you know understanding. Who has set its dimensions, for you know? Or who has stretched a line on it? On what were its bases sunk? Or who cast its cornerstone, when the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? (Job 38:4-7)

He made the moon for seasons; the sun knows its going down. You put darkness, and it is night; in it all the forest animals creep. The young lions roar for prey, and to seek their food from God. The sun rises; they are gathered, and go to their dens to lie down. Man goes out to his work, and to his labor until the evening. (Psalm 104:19-23)

Praise Him, sun and moon; praise Him, all you stars of light. Praise Him, O heavens of heavens; and O waters that are above the heavens. Let them praise the name of Jehovah; for He commanded, and they were created. And He established them forever and ever; He gave a decree that they not pass away. (Psalm 148:3-6)

To Him who made great lights; for His mercy endures forever; the sun to rule by day; for His mercy endures forever; the moon and the stars to rule by night; for His mercy endures forever; (Psalm 136:7-9)

Vinnie

Hugh Ross, is that you?

We might as well get straight to the point. Even if we granted all these Rossian reinterpretations (and thats a big even if) this creation model still falls flat on its face since descent with modification is incompatible with this "literal" reading of the original Hebrew. Of course thats for another forum.

With that being out of the way, I must say that when non-Hebrew scholars attempt to reinterpret ancient biblical Hebrew in such a "carefree" manner one should be suspicious by default of after-the fact force fitting. The language has what, like 3,000 words not counting proper nouns? My understanding is that it is very difficult to translate precisely even by very competent scholars.

These reinterpretations my be genuine or possible, but it would be nice to see a third-party Hebrew specialist address them

As far as the support scripture, few here think its valid to support verses in light of other verses. That stance usually indicates a belief in inspiration. Care to elaborate on how those four verses support the reinterpretation?

Vinnie

PTET

The Genesis account of creation states that fruit trees came before animal life. The Bible is therefore not scientifically accurate - and Hugh Ross's "testable Biblical creation model" fails in its attempt to make testable scientific predictions.

(See my Reasons not to believe Hugh Ross's Creation Model).

Mark Perakh provides a fascinating demolition of Ross's use of Hebrew at his page A Crusade Of Arrogance.

Cheers!

PTET

mark9950

Here is another resource on the so called creation read the book of enoch.

It contains the details of creation and the commandments of the luminaries.

Would you believe that enoch believed that the sun and moon rose with the power of a chariot pulling it.

PTET

It's worth adding that our friends at Answers In Genesis seem to have a rather low opinion of Dr Ross - and his mis-use of Hebrew in particular. Try Googling AIG for "Hugh Ross"

PTET