livius drusus

Again, that does not address Karen M's distinction. Not to indulge in excessive truism, but people who intentionally pull on a gun on a policeman in order to get killed do so with the specific aim of ending their own lives. A person taking a bullet for someone he loves is not considered a suicide even though he is choosing to put himself in situation where death is a very likely consequence.

Starboy

Ahhhh, I see. Jesus was god but was not god and did die but did not die and he was human but he was not human. Oh yeah, makes perfect sense I suppose if you're a Christian.

Starboy

Magus55

And the point of having discussions with people like you when you haven't foggiest clue of even the basic underlying concept behind the Trinity?

Starboy

That is so funny Magus, as if anybody has a clue about the Trinity. I suppose it is a mystery to every Christian but you.

Starboy

livius drusus

Magus, stop now, please. Starboy, please do the same. This bickering is inappropriate and damages the thread.

The subject is whether Jesus' omniscience means he effectively committed suicide by taking a course of action that he knew would lead to his death. Does his intent exonerate him of the charge? Please address that general issue and refrain from personalizing the matter.

Thank you,
livius drusus
Moderator, GRD

Starboy

So is the issue of the nonsensical idea of a god dying to be ignored?

Starboy

livius drusus

Yes. iFeel's stipulation in the OP is quite clear. The hypothetical assumes foreknowledge and therefore godhead.

Dark Jedi

How does that Mad Kally quote go?

"For He so loveth mankind that he sacraficed Himself to Himself to appease His own anger at His creation."

john_v_h

That is the essential Mystery of the Incarnation. The doctrine (of the Catholic Church, at least) is that in the one person of Jesus both human and divine natures were united, each retaining its distinct qualities. Thus it was the human nature of Jesus which met death on the cross and his divine nature which had complete foreknowledge of the event. It must be that he intended to die, for he knew that he would and did not prevent it.

Suicide is considered sinful by the Church unless it is the outcome of some virtuous act (for example, the health worker who cares for plague victims knowing she will certainly contract and die of the disease) or it results from the refusal of extraordinary means to preserve life. The reason is that God, as creator of life, retains the sole right to destroy it.

Therefore, Jesus' suicide was not sinful, for two reasons:

1. It was in the service of the greater good of human redemption.
2. As God, Jesus had the right to end his human life.

Reference: The Catholic Encyclopedia

Sarpedon

Ah, once again, we say that god doesn't have to abide by his own rules...typical!