CaliNORML

The basis for manipulation of religion seems to stem from a claim of inheritance or a birthright. The seperation of almost all organized Western Religions: Judisam, Christianity and Islam, can traced the back to the basic belief that the assumption of power or right to land is granted by God through the virtue of ones birth.

The Holy Land today for instance, who was supposed to have it? All three have same God, the God of Abraham. His sons fight over the Middle East one asserting it was only them to whom God promised the Promised Land. One side is backed by Christianity and Judism with military force and media power the other Islam.

History shows us this belief that God entitled a few certain people to only hold power and rule over other men soon turns into the demand for wealth and political gain, and seems to be the downfall of organized religions. Taking only certain texts and compiling them into "evidence" to support a grab for power and used to disguise their greed seems the basis of many religous books.

Policitally speaking the King James version of the bible is trying to maintain that power system. A system where the belief that the King is annointed by God to rule over a nation and as such so are his heirs, no matter how wrong they may be. This is what these collected texts support. It is in the King's intrest to supports this claim as it ensures him dominance.

On the other hand the Islamic culture had Democracy long before America was even discovered, taking in Greek and Christian children and training them to lead. This was from the belief that with no family and area ties they would make unbiased leaders.

Having a Constituition of their own guarenteeing religious freedom throughout the Ottoman Empire from Spain to India and as far north as Hungary freedom for all was observed and respected. Yet today we strive to dictate these principals to them when in truth they saved the concept of democracy for us in the West.

Even Muslim belief is affected by this birth claim as one faction believes only a direct Decendant of Muhamad should rule, while the other still believes anyone worthy can lead. Leaders are elected by the elders to do so, no matter their birth. This Islam of elected leaders, The Ottoman Empire, was ended by a woman seeking to make her own son heir, turning the last leader against his lifelong friend and his first born son. Shortly after his death, the Ottoman Empire fell, brought low by a person seeking a claim via birth.

When Jesus' birth was fortold many women of wealthy political families thought that they would be chosen to bear the son of God. Ironically Mary was chosen. She was from a family of little wealth and no political power. Many wondered how he of such low birth and standing and having no political power to change the world, could.

Despite this it seems he still did, even against the popular political leaders of religion who helped to condem him to death.

Used as a tool, positive results can come from religions use, yet so can bad actions based on the ends a person seeks to gain from the use of such writtings. Religion used in these forms has indeed brought many rulers the power which they sought and is an effective tool, many have exploited that facet of religion through the years, after all it works.

Asserting a right to rule by divine appointment or killing another person is a manipulation of religion and nothing more that a grab for wordly power and gain which is warned against in the bible. This want to have more or be in control or a people or a region have sadly used religion effectively for centuries to do these actions, ignoring the overall message it carries.

Manipulated in such a fashion, can religion be blamed for humans want of power and wealth, or was it the person using religion in such a fashion who is to blame?

KMS

Thomas II

If you want to know what "god" wants for this land read the story of "the prodigal son". The characters are a father and two sons. The father represents "the land" and the two sons represent Jews and Palestinians.
The father does not divide the land. Instead he exhort the sons to get along and SHARE IT! Any other outcome brakes the law of the land.
BTW,this is MY own take on the issue, so this is just MY opinion.

sheep

i agree that the bible makes everything sound like a birthright. ok. this is gonna be irrelevent but even jesus' parables about seeds... the seeds didnt choose who they wanted to be or where they wanted to grow! they were simply tares or wheat. or dropped where ever!
and also, God seems to practice favoritism. he favors his chosen people and kills others sometimes for no apparent reason besides the fact that they arent the chosen people.
sorry about the off topicness.

CaliNORML

Did God strike them dead?

Or was it someone claiming this is what "God" said was his, and as such was claiming it in a cruel fashion?

In the parable of the "Progdial Son" I forget did one returning son start to take over all his brothers things, and declare himself the law of the tribe and lands?

KMS

That was a good little meaning to that parable, I had never thought of it in such a braod fashion as Nations before now. Thanks for the new view!!

Thomas II

Well,you got a point, that's why I said my perception was completely subjective...It simply stroke me that way...
The story goes that the father divides his inheritance equally between the two sons. One wastes it all away, comes back, and is welcome back...
The other son feels like the prodigal brother is coming for a second dip,so he ain't happy, and he might be right...But the father says "He is one of us...What are you going to do, kick him out? He is your brother! We don't abandon family!"
We don't really know what was said between the two brothers. The story doesn't say..Maybe something like:

-"Hey,dude, I'm back!"
-"Yeah, I see, you son-of-a-bitch! What the fuck are you doing here?
-"What do you mean?"
-"You know what I mean...You wasted your part and now you come here and I have to share it all with you again? Fuck you, you selfish bastard!
-Oh,yeah? Well Dad said I could stay,so fuck YOU! And don't fuck with me because I'll kick your ass to kingdom come!! Just fucking try me!!

Maybe not with all the words, but kind of like that...

The land,(the father) on the other hand, KNOWS his own children, and he is just happy to see them again alive and well...

CaliNORML

Well, maybe for their fathers sake, they should learn to get on better with one another.

That is really what ever parent wants to see after all, his children not only together, but together in peace.

KMS

Thomas II

No doubt that is what the father wants, and that is what eventually will happen...
This is about sibling rivalry...Both should loosen up a bit and have respect for the land, and both understand that without the land they would be nothing...