John Kesler

See the article here, which rebuts Glenn Miller's attempt to reconcile the passages.

Sheshbazzar

The Bible never says anything about the value of Pi.

Sai

it talks about a circular tank that is 10 cubits across and 30 around.
those numbers are impossible, since it is impossible to measure accurately with cubits. and pi=3.(00000000000000000000) derived from those is wrong. but the bibleites cant admit that.

Sheshbazzar

It is easy to jump to unwarranted conclusions.
In this case the object being described is more complex and detailed in its construction than being a simple circular tank, being 'circular' does not require any object to be a 'perfect' circle.

Some food for thought. It was supported upon twelve oxen, this would suggest a possibility that the thirty cubit measurement actually compassed twelve points about the perimeter thus reducing the circumference from that of a perfect circle.
There is nothing within the text's description that requires the 'tank' to have been a perfect circle.
Nor do we have any information as to at what point and elevation upon this ornately fashioned and decorated tank assembly the thirty cubit encompassing measure was taken.

I strongly disagree with the statement that "it is impossible to measure accurately with cubits", many ancient cultures were capable of measuring very accurately with their 'cubit measure' standards.
It is a naive misconception that the mighty temples and monuments of ancient civilizations were constructed with each workman depending upon the length of his own arm to measure and build.
One of the necessities of any functioning and continuing government is to establish official STANDARDS of length, weight, and volume.
That the Hebrews had a precise and highly accurate system of measures is evident within many verses of the Bible, The Torah contains strict laws concerning the administration of 'a just and a perfect measure'.

Sai

of course it was not a "perfect" circle; that is impossible

ok, so they had a standard cubit? could be.

and the tank was a dodecahedron? could be

the thing never even exited? that could be too

how did they get the 30 cubits around, with a line? i guess that is a string...string stretches. Trying to mesure 15 meters or so to a millimeter with string... nah. who would even try?


when i said "impossible to measure accurately" i thought it obvious that I meant something about the degree of accuracy. Two cow lengths is accurate enough for some figgering i guess. a couple millimeters more or less is good enough for a pyramid?

But, you tell me, if cubits are accurate, using cubits, to how accurate do you think you could get?

to within .01 cubits? .001? at some point its not going to work any more.



so, no matter how hard you try, the number '10 cubits" is going to be approximate.

its not really 10

its 9.9276, or 1.0123 or something.

bible says it is 10, it isnt, so.... is that inerrant, or is the bible just approximately correct.

show_no_mercy

I agree that inferring Pi being equal to three is a waste of time. "Pi" could be equal to three if the circle isn't exactly perfect.

Maybe you should concentrate on other Bible errors, like how Jesus names the wrong high priest in Mark 2:26. Or the one I mentioned earlier.

Sheshbazzar

I am setting in a room whose dimensions are 23' 4" x 15' 4", given the vagaries of construction, it of course does not exactly conform to that measure down to the .001", none the less, for purposes of description these numbers serve to give a fairly accurate and comprehensible description of its size to anyone acquainted with common English units of measure.
To those who are acquainted with, and are conversant in usage of 'cubit' measures, 23 'cubits' and 4 'fingerbreadths' indicates a distance just as accurately.

And as our English system of measures is able to conceive of and even measure down to the .0001 of the inch, so likewise against the STANDARD 'finger' (breadth) may likewise measurements be divided and also be made down to as far as can be humanly achieved.
.0001 of a etzbah 'finger' is just as accurate and just as precise of a measurement as is a measurement of .0001 of an 'inch'.

James Brown

Sounds like a waste of time. The outside rim of the container measures ten cubits, and the inner rim across measures three cubits. Nowhere in the passage is there a mathematical formula calculated, nor is it meant to be a method of measuring circles.

It's a rough description of a container of water. Not worth the effort. There are far more interesting passages to consider if inerrancy is the issue.

What's more, who cares if some people consider the Bible inerrant? Some people consider Anton LaVey's The Satanic Bible to be inerrant, too. Are you going to live your life by that book's teachings as well?

Derec

Are you imagining every craftsman using his own forearm to measure stuff? That's preposterous.

Besides, a more accurate value for pi of 3 1/7 was used in Old Kingdom Egypt, quite a bit before this OT story was set and even longer before that story was written down. So there is really no excuse to use 3 for pi.

Derec

Of course it is. Cubit is just a unit. It does not necessitate going around the pool putting one's forearm back to back on itself.